New to Water Profiles

[gl1800cat]

I am doubting the water test from Ward and based on some recent bad batches, I am going to try a batch with distilled water adding in the salts.
The recipe is a basic IPA with 11 lbs. 2-row base malt, 2 lbs. Pale Ale malt, 1/2 lb. Crystal 40 and 1/2 lb. Carapils. With this grain bill and using distilled water, Brewsmith is saying I need the following:

13.07 grams of gypsum
4.22 grams of baking soda
3.75 grams of epsom salt
3.42 grams of calcium chloride

The same grain bill ... Brew Father says this:

7 grams of gypsum
2 grams of baking soda
3.5 grams of epsom salt
2.5 grams of calcium chloride

As much as I like both of these .... it seems rather confusing. What factors affect this or that? Which calculator is correct? If you have the same grain bill, the salts should be the same regardless of the amount of water used for mashing in or sparge .... correct?

Thanks in advance!

 

[GigaFemto]

What water profile are you trying to get? How much water? If you chose an "IPA" profile on each site they may have different target concentrations. To make a good comparison you need to be sure the target concentrations and the water amounts are the same for both sites.

--GF

 

[gl1800cat]

Giga,
Thanks for your reply, but I am not sure what you mean?
The style is an American IPA. With that said and the grain bill I outlined, the salts should be the same, correct?
I am not sure why the amount of water matters and where that is controlled. Maybe you can look at the attached file and see where I am going wrong?

When I see double the amount of gypsum and baking soda compared to another calculator, I start to wonder.

Thanks,

 

[BeerSmith]

Water adjustments are generally not made based on the grain bill but on a given target water profile so when you adjust the water in the water tab you also set a target water profile and try to match that. The recipe you provided is for a Hoppy Pale Ale which is a particular profile in BeerSmith. Also you have your base profile set to distilled water (no ions) so that may be bumping things up.

I have no idea what the other program is using for a target water profile or how it is doing the profile matching, so its hard for me to determine what they are using.

 

[GigaFemto]

The amount of water matters because the targets are concentrations in parts per million (ppm or milligrams per liter), but the calculators tell you how many total grams to add. If you add 7 grams of gypsum to 7 gallons of water you will get a different concentration of ions than if you add 7 grams of gypsum to 10 gallons of water. Further, not everyone agrees on what concentrations are "best" for a particular style. For hoppy beers some people will go with sulfate up to 350 ppm, while others prefer to keep it to 150-200 ppm. BeerSmith and Brew Father may not be trying to achieve the same ion concentrations even for a style with the same name.

--GF

 

[gl1800cat]

Giga,
Thanks for your reply. This makes sense.
For me, it’s hard to get things exactly right because I can’t really measure water out to the nenth degree. I have a tank where I heat my water and I pump it into the mash tun and I mash in the grain until the consistency looks correct. It may be a little over / little under from time to time, but it’s pretty consistent. I’m not sure how everybody else does it especially when they get to larger batches but this is how I do it.

 

[McMullan]

You need to express more initiative and record some basic parameters for your brewing system, from what I’m reading here. Knowing the volume(s) of water used in brewing is pretty essential for training software-based predictions. No software is going to do it for you. You can weigh water. 1L = 1kg. Or use a tape measure to note the dimensions of your brewing vessel(s), then, combined with fill level (height), use something like this.

You should be adjusting your water used for brewing (mashing primarily) based on your water report + desired water profile for style, not grist/grain bill. I’m not familiar with Brewfather, as I don’t like the aggressive Nordic marketing platform sponsored ad nausea all over digital space, especially when I’m not looking to change my brewing software. It’s like being poked in the eye repeatedly. Anyway, I use a few water calculators. Which one depends on what I’m brewing. All I’ll type is, the BeerSmith3 water tool works absolutely fine. So before doubting it, express some of that initiative needed as a home brewer.

 

[gl1800cat]

You need to express more initiative and record some basic parameters for your brewing system, from what I’m reading here. Knowing the volume(s) of water used in brewing is pretty essential for training software-based predictions. No software is going to do it for you. You can weigh water. 1L = 1kg. Or use a tape measure to note the dimensions of your brewing vessel(s), then, combined with fill level (height), use something like this.

You should be adjusting your water used for brewing (mashing primarily) based on your water report + desired water profile for style, not grist/grain bill. I’m not familiar with Brewfather, as I don’t like the aggressive Nordic marketing platform sponsored ad nausea all over digital space, especially when I’m not looking to change my brewing software. It’s like being poked in the eye repeatedly. Anyway, I use a few water calculators. Which one depends on what I’m brewing. All I’ll type is, the BeerSmith3 water tool works absolutely fine. So before doubting it, express some of that initiative needed as a home brewer.

Thanks for the help ... buddy.
Ya know, you might want to think back to when you didn't have all the answers and needed some help without insults.

 

[Kevin58]

Giga,
Thanks for your reply. This makes sense.
For me, it’s hard to get things exactly right because I can’t really measure water out to the nenth degree. I have a tank where I heat my water and I pump it into the mash tun and I mash in the grain until the consistency looks correct. It may be a little over / little under from time to time, but it’s pretty consistent. I’m not sure how everybody else does it especially when they get to larger batches but this is how I do it.

But you could if you wanted to. A gallon of water measures roughly 8.3 pounds on a scale. Go to a hardware store or big box home center and look for the section where they have metal bar stock and pick up a piece of flat aluminum bar. This will be used to make a measuring stick. I used 1" wide by 1/16" thick and about 3' long (which you will cut to fit your vessel).

I measured out a 1/2 gallon of water at a time in a pitcher and then pour it into my vessel. insert the aluminum stick and mark the level of the water. Repeat these steps until you have markings on the stick as high as the maximum volume your vessel will hold.

To make reading the water marks on the aluminum flat bar easier use food coloring to coat the stick. The water will wash off what it touches leaving a clear line for you to mark. I found this method of making a measuring stick by forum member @Oginme in a post found here: https://beersmith.com/forum/index.p...r-the-anvil-6-5g-brewing-system-part-1.20873/

If you are just eyeballing your volumes then your overall results will vary every time. This is especially true for making water adjustments if you are treating different amounts of water from one day to the next.