Mash tuns in all-in-1 brewing systems

[AndyEW]

I was looking at the equipment profile for the BrewZilla 35L Gen 4 and was wondering if the Mash/Lauter Tun section was still relevant. With the obvious exception of the Mash Tun Volume field. With the all-in-1 brewing systems you basically have a heated mash tun which will sustain the desired temperature(s) for the length of the mash. The only calculation to be done is the drop in water temperature due to the temperature and weight of the grain being added.

The fields Mash Tun Weight and Mash Tun Specific Heat fields in the equipment profile seem to be superfluous to all-in-1 brewing systems. Am I understanding this correctly?

Andy

 

[Kevin58]

All in one units are BIAB system. Think of it that way and use the settings for BIAB in your profiles.

 

[AndyEW]

Thanks for the reply. I agree that it is a BIAB system but how are the Mash Tun Weight and Mash Tun Specific Heat fields in the equipment profile relevant when the mash tun's temperature is maintained at the required level? The BIAB - Standard 5 Gal/19 l Batch profile has values of 6.804 kg for the weight and 0.12 for the Specific Heat field. I would like to understand how these values are used in profiles for BIAB systems.

 

[BOB357]

As with any mash vessel, you need to furnish these inputs so BeerSmith can calculate the strike water temperature needed to hit your desired mash temperature when you dough in, which can vary depending on the grain bill and water volume.

If you prefer, you can guess at the strike temperature and let the system adjust as needed to hit the mash temperature. This may take some time, especially if you overshoot the strike temperature.

 

[GigaFemto]

You are correct. The mash tun weight and specific heat are minor factors in BIAB systems. I don't know exactly what, if anything, BeerSmith does with those numbers. They do matter a bit because the vessel is heated to the strike temperature and not the mash temperature, so there is a bit of extra heat energy there that goes into the grain+water system when it all equilibrates. I have attached a document with formulas for the strike temperature considering only the grains and water and one considering the thermal mass of the vessel, assuming it is at strike temperature. These formulas can easily be derived using conservation of energy. You can compare the two strike temperature calculations to see how much the equipment affects the result. I find that BeerSmith gives me answers within 0.1 F of the calculation with equipment at strike temperature.

--GF

 

[Kevin58]

Thanks for the reply. I agree that it is a BIAB system but how are the Mash Tun Weight and Mash Tun Specific Heat fields in the equipment profile relevant when the mash tun's temperature is maintained at the required level? The BIAB - Standard 5 Gal/19 l Batch profile has values of 6.804 kg for the weight and 0.12 for the Specific Heat field. I would like to understand how these values are used in profiles for BIAB systems.

For mash tun weight I put the unit on a scale and actually weigh it. For specific heat I trust Brad's research and add the figure for stainless steel (0.12). Just set those figures and forget it.

Bob is right about the etched markings on many kettles. If you want to be accurate make a measuring stick. Here is a post by @Oginme about how he made one with an inexpensive piece of aluminum bar-stock from the home store and food coloring.

Developing a profile for the Anvil 6.5G Brewing System - Part 1

I recently purchased an Anvil Foundry 6.5 Gallon all-in-one brewing system and thought I would walk you all through the process I use to set up an equipment profile. I plan on using this system to brew a 10 liter batch into the fermenter, with 11+ liters finished at the end of the boil. My...

beersmith.com

I highly recommend that you not accept the equipment profiles found in Beersmith. Even Brad Smith suggests you use those profiles as a starting point to customize your own profile. Your brew days will be much easier if you do but can lead to constant frustration if you don't.

 

[stevebonny]

There is a check box for "adjust temp for equipment" on the mash page. I don't use BIAB - I use All grain type and uncheck this box.

I'm assuming it then just uses the grain mass and temp..... Seems to work.

 

[stevebonny]

I'll add that there are grainfather equipment profiles that you could use as a starting point.

 

[Kevin58]

There is a check box for "adjust temp for equipment" on the mash page. I don't use BIAB - I use All grain type and uncheck this box.

I'm assuming it then just uses the grain mass and temp..... Seems to work.

Agreed. Marshal Shott of Brulosophy created video tutorials for making custom profiles of all types... equipment profiles and mash profiles for various methods of mashing & sparging. I seem to recall that he also recommended to uncheck this box.

 

[stevebonny]

Agreed. Marshal Shott of Brulosophy created video tutorials for making custom profiles of all types... equipment profiles and mash profiles for various methods of mashing & sparging. I seem to recall that he also recommended to uncheck this box.

Yeah, people often seem to suggest setting it up as a BIAB, but that doesn't make sense to me. BIAB uses a full volume mash and no sparge. With these systems you use a regular volume for the mash and you sparge. The equipment can be set up to do exactly that and the profiles are already available.
Each to their own!

 

[AndyEW]

I agree with Steve as it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. For me the main difference to BIAB is I sparge using sparge water heated in a separate kettle. As I understand it, you don't do that with BIAB.

 

[Kevin58]

Yeah, people often seem to suggest setting it up as a BIAB, but that doesn't make sense to me. BIAB uses a full volume mash and no sparge. With these systems you use a regular volume for the mash and you sparge. The equipment can be set up to do exactly that and the profiles are already available.
Each to their own!

Not necessarily. I've had an Anvil Foundry 10.5 and an SS Brewtech SVBS. I do full volume on both. Even with traditional BIAB there were many who would not squeeze and just pulled the bag and placed it in a bucket and poured water over it to sparge. You can sparge BIAB and you can do full volume with an all-in-one.... and if you do that then using the BIAB mash profile works.

 

[Oginme]

Yeah, people often seem to suggest setting it up as a BIAB, but that doesn't make sense to me. BIAB uses a full volume mash and no sparge. With these systems you use a regular volume for the mash and you sparge. The equipment can be set up to do exactly that and the profiles are already available.
Each to their own!

With these systems, people can do either a full volume mash or a mash and sparge step. Most of the people heat up and treat their water all at once in these devices, and then remove the volume of water they want to sparge with before mashing in. This makes it easy to do the water salt additions in the software.

My experience is that the water absorption in an AIO is closer to that of BIAB versus a traditional mash tun setup. So that makes initial estimates much closer when doing your first few batches.

Aside from that, the software does not know when you are doing a sparge or not. It really does not matter in the long run for most AIO systems which you use.

If you are heating your water in a separate kettle and then pouring it over your mash basket, then by all means use a traditional mash/sparge profile.

Understand that just because something does not make sense to you, does not make it wrong; it just makes it different from how you configure your process.

 

[stevebonny]

With these systems, people can do either a full volume mash or a mash and sparge step. Most of the people heat up and treat their water all at once in these devices, and then remove the volume of water they want to sparge with before mashing in. This makes it easy to do the water salt additions in the software.

My experience is that the water absorption in an AIO is closer to that of BIAB versus a traditional mash tun setup. So that makes initial estimates much closer when doing your first few batches.

Aside from that, the software does not know when you are doing a sparge or not. It really does not matter in the long run for most AIO systems which you use.

If you are heating your water in a separate kettle and then pouring it over your mash basket, then by all means use a traditional mash/sparge profile.

Understand that just because something does not make sense to you, does not make it wrong; it just makes it different from how you configure your process.

I don't recall saying anything was wrong?? I'm allowed to disagree with your advice though and offer a different opinion. My opinion is to set the software up to follow what you are doing rather than set it up for something you aren't doing and then adjust various stuff to make it work. You can also adjust the grain absorption if you find it is wrong.

 

[sbrewingcompany]

Yes, you are right in your understanding. In all-in-one brewing structures like the BrewZilla 35L Gen 4, the Mash/Lauter Tun part might also no longer be as applicable because the device features a heated mash tun and keeps the preferred temperature at some point of the mash. Fields such as Mash Tun Weight and Mash Tun Specific Heat may additionally no longer be indispensable for these structures as they are designed to simplify the brewing process.