Ales vs Lagers question

[perfection]

I understand that ales are typically warm fermented with top fermenting yeast and have shorter conditioning times comapred to lagers but are they really warm conditioned (conditioned at warmer termperatures) vis a vis lagers? What about the diacetyl rest and cold crashing regimes?

 

[Kevin58]

I don't do a diacetyl rest with ales because I am already fermenting in the mid 60's F to low 70's. I do do the diacetyl rest with lagers which I ferment in the low to mid 50's F. That rest goes to the mid+ 60's.

Realize however that the lines between ale and lager are being blurred in recent years with faux lagers and warm fermented lagers. Also keep in mind that the word lager in its literal translation simply means to store. Which leads to conditioning. Since I keg directly after fermentation is complete all of my beers are conditioned (which can mean either carbonated or aged depending on its use and/or who is using it) at serving temperature of 38F to 40F.

 

[stevebonny]

I'm similar to above. I ferment ales in the mid 60s and diecetyl rest at 70. Lagers ferment in the low 50s and diacetyl rest at 68F.
Traditionally stronger darker ales are stored and served at warmer temps than lighter lagers. If you google "correct serving temperature for beer" you should get some results. Lagering is a traditional method that has you store the lager at mid 30s temps for several weeks to clear and condition. Not typically done for ales. I think all bets are off these days as Kevin mentions - about anything goes!

 

[KB]

"Warm" is relatively speaking. For ales, think, for the most part, basement temps, temps in the 60s. For lagers, thin, for the most part, temps in the 40s and 50s.

 

[GaryW]

Also keep in mind that the word lager in its literal translation simply means to store. Which leads to conditioning. Since I keg directly after fermentation is complete all of my beers are conditioned (which can mean either carbonated or aged depending on its use and/or who is using it) at serving temperature of 38F to 40F.

I lived in Germany for 6 years (many years before I became interested in homebrewing) and came to understand the differences between ales and lagers.

A good lager needs to be lagered (aged/stored) for 4-6 months and requires a method of temperature control during that time.

I also keg immediately after fermentation. I start the lagering process with corny kegs in my temperature-controlled freezer at 55°±F (temperature out of the fermenter). I decrease the temperature 1°F per day until reaching 37°. That temperature needs to be maintained as the beer is aged (lagered)...preferably for about 6 months.

 

[McMullan]

Traditionally, when beers were brewed seasonally and without much available technology and meaningful understanding, it might have taken several months to lager a beer. Nowadays it can be done within several weeks or less. The romantic marketing claims are often just that, I suspect, romantic marketing claims.

 

[Brew Bama]

Gary, while I also lived in Germany which has zero to do with how to brew, I have to disagree that 4-6 months is required for a good lager. While it certainly can’t hurt, that length of time is simply not required.

 

[stevebonny]

Do any of you ever watch the Brulosopy experiments? I find them interesting and fun. They will just run basic back to back tests and see if anyone can tell the difference. They ran a lagering test a few years ago on a festbier. I dont remember the full details but essentially one was lagered for an extended period and the other wasn't. The conclusion was that they couldn't be distinguished by the tasters in opaque cups. I think the lagered beer had cleared better with no finings used. Lots of variables for sure but I use finings and dont lager for more than a week or 2.

 

[GaryW]

... I have to disagree that 4-6 months is required for a good lager. While it certainly can’t hurt, that length of time is simply not required.

While perhaps not exactly required, aging helps...clarity if nothing else.