storing grain

[Scott Ickes]

No.  They are older coleman coolers that my wife and I had when we met about 13 years ago.  They're the standard rectangular ones.  Here are photos of me using them to brew this past Sunday.

I have the two of them set up in tandem to give me the equivalent of a 24 gallon MLT.  It works really well.

 

[grathan]

Neat setup. You could even mash in the brew pot and then lauter in the cooler if you ever needed a massive brew. That is one of the neatest brew rooms I've seen. My bad posture would need something more relaxing like an Adirondack chair though. 

 

[Scott Ickes]

Thanks!

I haven't tested the limitations on high gravity brews yet with it and I haven't tested the batch size capacity yet.

I know that I can get at least a 15 gallon batch out of it up to 1.060 gravity though.

I might test the limits someday on how large of a batch I can mash.  I'm theoretically using a 24 gallon MLT though.  So, what ever that is capable of, is what I have.

I just did a ten gallon batch at 1.056 OG and both MLT were only half full.

 

[SharpsRifle]

No.  They are older coleman coolers that my wife and I had when we met about 13 years ago.  They're the standard rectangular ones.  Here are photos of me using them to brew this past Sunday.

I have the two of them set up in tandem to give me the equivalent of a 24 gallon MLT.  It works really well.

So essentially the first cooler runs through the second like a sparge.  When you do sparge, it all goes into the top cooler and works it's way down through the second?

Sounds like a great solution.  I've been thinking about using two coolers myself.
My 10 gallon cooler is so undersized about 75% of the time.  It's small for interesting 10 gallon batches or any parti-gyle brewing.
I think I may look at converting my extra 5 gallon round cooler to a tun, build a sparge assembly for the 10 gallon one and give it a try!

If I like it, I can build a second 10 gallon tun.

 

[Rep]

Or, size a mash tun to fit your terminal brewery capacity.  I would think it is easier to hit your temps in one vessel rather than two.  That BTW is MHO.

 

[Scott Ickes]

No.  They are older coleman coolers that my wife and I had when we met about 13 years ago.  They're the standard rectangular ones.  Here are photos of me using them to brew this past Sunday.

I have the two of them set up in tandem to give me the equivalent of a 24 gallon MLT.  It works really well.

So essentially the first cooler runs through the second like a sparge.  When you do sparge, it all goes into the top cooler and works it's way down through the second?

Sounds like a great solution.  I've been thinking about using two coolers myself.
My 10 gallon cooler is so undersized about 75% of the time.  It's small for interesting 10 gallon batches or any parti-gyle brewing.
I think I may look at converting my extra 5 gallon round cooler to a tun, build a sparge assembly for the 10 gallon one and give it a try!

If I like it, I can build a second 10 gallon tun.

You can see my process here.  http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,9216.0.html

I don't have any trouble hitting my temps because I always put my strike water in hotter and wait until it drops to the correct temp and then add the grains.  I take the heat properties of the coolers out of the equation that way and my shop is heated, so I know my grains are always at about 70F.

 

[Scott Ickes]

My apologies to the OP for the thread going away from grain storage.  Here are two photos of my grain storage containers.  They are all empty, because two days ago a did a 10 gallon batch and used up all of my grains and hops.

I put my base grains in the large bin.  I have three different sizes of smaller rubbermaid containers on the shelves that I put other grains in.  All I have left in those right now is toasted american oak chips and DME that I use for bottling.

 

[SharpsRifle]

Or, size a mash tun to fit your terminal brewery capacity.  I would think it is easier to hit your temps in one vessel rather than two.  That BTW is MHO.

I agree that it's better to have a perfect size tun, and I'm going to get a 25 gallon boil kettle and convert my 15 gallon keggle to a mash tun with a heat exchange, but that takes time and money for me to build it.
Adding a cooler is a fast way that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  There's that and the fact that some 10 gallon batches require at least a 15 gallon tun and some parti-gyle brews require more.  I'm not a fan of the typical square cooler either.  I know that many many guys have great luck with them but I like the geometry of a tun that is a lot taller than it is wide ( like a gatoraid/water cooler ).  The properties of heat transfer ( heat rises, the top where the heat is going is smaller relative, the top generally has dead air space and the sides are touching insulated walls ) along with the fact that the water has to pass through more of the grain makes me like that better.
Another advantage to his two cooler system is that a bigger tun solves the problem of not enough space, but if you want to brew 5 gallons of hefe for example, you don't want a 20 plus gallon tun with all that dead space.  The more full it is the better the thermal properties.  Multi cooler lets you size it to the brew day better.

Hitting the temp isn't a huge concern to me when using two coolers.  If the coolers are the same, they start at the same temp, the water is the same temp and so is the grain, the math says that the mash will be the same, with the exception of any variation in my procedure ( time ) from one cooler to the other.

My apologies to the OP for the thread going away from grain storage.  Here are two photos of my grain storage containers.  They are all empty, because two days ago a did a 10 gallon batch and used up all of my grains and hops.

I put my base grains in the large bin.  I have three different sizes of smaller rubbermaid containers on the shelves that I put other grains in.  All I have left in those right now is toasted american oak chips and DME that I use for bottling.

No need to apologize for the deviation.  I'm interested in building a variation on your system as a temporary solution to my tun's limitations.
I'm brewing a black butte clone in the next several days.  The reason I'm doing five gallons instead of ten is the grain bill wont fit in a 10 gallon cooler.  I've got an extra 5 and if I were to find a good deal on another 10 gallon cooler not only could I do ten gallons of black butte, but I could do a very good parti-gyle with 20 gallons.  Your setup would let me use a five, ten, fifteen or twenty gallon tun. 
I actually like the idea because if you run wort from the upper tun through the lower one, then sparge from the upper through the lower, you end up rinsing the grains very well.
The bottom tun gets every bit of the wort run over it's grains and the top one gets it's mash water, plus you could do all the sparge water into the top and let it run down through both tuns.
I might add a couple handfuls of rice hulls to the bottom tun just because with all that liquid running through it you would have a better chance of compacting the grain bed and getting a stuck sparge.
I may work on a variation on your system.  Three tier with a hot liquor tank on the top.  I probably have a few square coleman coolers to choose from for the hot liquor tank.
The only problem with my three tier version is I probably wont use the top level ( hot liquor tank ) until I buy the pump for the heat exchange system.  I don't want to lift that much hot water that high.

It looks like no one has an answer to the 55 pounds of grain in a square Rubbermaid tub.  I probably have 30 or 40 pounds of base malt around the house.  I must have 10 or 15 pounds of other grains around.  I should be able to put it in one of the larger tubs I have, push it all to one side and measure the length, width and depth required.
Then I can get the volume I need.
I figure that I want to be able to have three or four full bags and several grains in smaller quantities around.  I should know how much a 5 gallon bucket holds off the top of my head since I use a home depot bucket under my mill.  Seems like when I size a batch to my mash tun, I have about 24 pounds of grain and it almost all fits in a 5 gallon bucket when it's crushed.
A couple buckets should work for any grain that I plan to keep 15 to 20 pounds of on hand.
I want neatly stackable storage that I can either stack under my bar, in the corner of the room, under the daughter's air hockey table or a combination of all of the above!

 

[Scott Ickes]

I should know how much a 5 gallon bucket holds off the top of my head since I use a home depot bucket under my mill.  Seems like when I size a batch to my mash tun, I have about 24 pounds of grain and it almost all fits in a 5 gallon bucket when it's crushed.
A couple buckets should work for any grain that I plan to keep 15 to 20 pounds of on hand.
[/quote]

This observation helps me figure out the size necessary to hold a bag of grain.  A 12 gallon container will hold a 50 pound bag of grain.  I figured that I'd check this, since I needed to wash out my grain bin anyhow, while it was empty.  It's 12 gallons right on the button!  When I put a 50 pound bag of grain in it (uncrushed), I have about 4 to 5 inches of space at the top.  When it's crushed it's basically full. 

By the way, crushed grain takes up more space than uncrushed!  I learned this when I had my LHBS crush all of a 50 pound bag.  It wouldn't all fit back into the bag, so they had to get a smaller grocery store sized bag for the extra.  When I purchase my next 50 pound bag, I'll take my empty grain bin with me and have them fill that up and save myself the time of dumping the grain into my bin.  I always miss with some of it and end up having to sweep my floor.  I hate cleaning!

 

[Scott Ickes]

I guess I didn't do the quote thing right...

 

[Rusty Nails]

I use Cam Ware for storage. Available at any restaurant supply, not expensive, and rugged. Plus they are designed to store food, un like home depot buckets.
If you don't have a restaurant supply near you, ask at your favorite locally owned restaurant. I'll bet they use them and can tell you where to get them. The franchise restaurants will have them sent from corporate.

Just my thoughts

Ed

 

[SharpsRifle]

This observation helps me figure out the size necessary to hold a bag of grain.  A 12 gallon container will hold a 50 pound bag of grain.  I figured that I'd check this, since I needed to wash out my grain bin anyhow, while it was empty.  It's 12 gallons right on the button!  When I put a 50 pound bag of grain in it (uncrushed), I have about 4 to 5 inches of space at the top.  When it's crushed it's basically full. 

By the way, crushed grain takes up more space than uncrushed!  I learned this when I had my LHBS crush all of a 50 pound bag.  It wouldn't all fit back into the bag, so they had to get a smaller grocery store sized bag for the extra.  When I purchase my next 50 pound bag, I'll take my empty grain bin with me and have them fill that up and save myself the time of dumping the grain into my bin.  I always miss with some of it and end up having to sweep my floor.  I hate cleaning!

There's the answer I was looking for!
The whole crushed grain taking up more space than whole grain is counterintuitive , but since it's based on observation of before and after crush grains not fitting the same bag, I have no doubt it's right.
I'll have to pay attention next time I'm crushing 20 plus pounds of grain.  Instead of each grain going from the Tupperware on top of the scale straight to he mill, I'll try and remember to make a stop in another bucket.

I use Cam Ware for storage. Available at any restaurant supply, not expensive, and rugged. Plus they are designed to store food, un like home depot buckets.
If you don't have a restaurant supply near you, ask at your favorite locally owned restaurant. I'll bet they use them and can tell you where to get them. The franchise restaurants will have them sent from corporate.

Just my thoughts

Ed

I did a google of camware and found it on amazon.  Not the bins that you are talking about, but the same brand stuff.
No restaurant supply place within hours of me.  I believe that local places depend on trucks and the occasional trip to Costco.
It sounds like the tubs would work about like the Tupperware tubs. The nice thing about the Tupperware type is that our little all in one store here has them and when I'm out of town anywhere I can pick up more for about 1/3 the price of local. 
They will keep the grain contained, fresher than any silo, fairly dry ( very humid out in Western Washington ), they will stack neatly and I can get them anywhere.
5 gallon buckets might be nice for some grains also, maybe.   
Vacuum sealed bags for the more aromatic grains, tucked neatly into another tote and it's all organized. 

Now that I know that 12 gallon bin holds a full bag of grain I may shop around this weekend. 
I need more tubs for brewing hardware anyway.  The hardware is getting out of hand!
Between brewing, fermenting, kegging, filtering and bottling hardware it's getting hard to find stuff and hard to get to it when you figure out where is!
The last straw was early in the week when the latest box showed up at my door.    What to do with a dozen beer filters and a new beer gun?

 

[Scott Ickes]

Sharps!  You're less than a 2.5 hour drive from me.  I'm down in Vancouver, Wa.  I get up your way about once a year on business.  I go to Weyerhaueser and Grays Harbor paper mills.

If you ever get down to Vancouver, WA, I'd be happy to have your join me during a brewing session!

 

[SharpsRifle]

Well Scott I've been to both those mills!  I'm a land surveyor and I've got some up coming additional mapping at the Raymond mill sometime in the next month.
Not good prospects for Grays Harbor paper though.  Although my office is right across from it.

I do get to Vancouver or near there quite a bit.  I was there last weekend and picked up some honey to make some mead, then off to Baders for some White labs sweet mead yeast that they assured me they had in stock.

One of the reasons I may be in Vancouver again next Saturday is they didn't actually have the yeast and wanted to sell me Wyeast instead.

I'm thinking of going to Hop-and-Grape in Longview to pick up a few of the 1000 varieties of beer they stock for inspiration for future brews then finding someone with the mead yeast I want.

Baders also has a 26 gallon brew pot I may want to pick up.  My 15 gallon keggle is a little small for some 10 gallon batches when you figure on transferring 11 gallons to the fermenter, plus hop loss, plus boil off for up to a 90 minute boil.  There just isn't room for a vigorous boil.
I could maybe do some 15 gallon batches in a 26 gallon kettle!

Bottom line is I'm in Vancouver or near there all the time, including this upcoming Saturday.

I would love to stop by and check out your brew system, maybe sample a beer or three and brewing with someone else would be fun.  I've never even seen another person brew all grain.

I tried getting a friend into brewing.  Started with him doing a simple extract brew recipe kit while I did an all grain smoked stout for contrast in the brewing methods, but I don't think he's inspired.  No patients.  He loves drinking the beer, but he's not patient.  He doesn't understand why I tell him it's going to be months before some of my beers are ready to drink.

Not many people to brew with here.

 

[Scott Ickes]

I won't be brewing on Saturday, but you're welcome to stop in anyhow and sample a few brews and see my setup.  I'm out of grains and hops at this time.  I can't really brew just for myself again for a while, because our local homebrew club has a barrell project coming up in October and I'll need 4 fermenters open for it!  We're brewing 125 gallons of beer in October.  After primary they're going into a 59 gallon wine barrell and a 53 gallon bourbon barrell.  I'll be making 20 gallons or more for the project in October though.

The wine barrell will have a Belgian Saison in it that we're going to sour in the barrell.  It will be in the barrell from 1-2 years, depending on taste and how it ages.

The bourbon barrell will get two different beers at a 50/50 ratio in it.  One is a Russian Imperial Stout with Cocoa Nibs and the other beer is a Concord Grape Belgian Strong Ale.  It's a standard Belgian Strong, but we rack it onto Concord Grape Pumice and let the wild yeasts have their way with it.  It is quite a unique beer by itself, but we've learned that when blended with other dark beers, the blend is always better than any of the beers on their own.  It will get a hint of bourbon and oak from the barrell.  It should pick up some funk too.

We still have room in this project, if you're interested.  We're looking for people to brew 5 to 10 gallons batches of any of the three.  We're only about 30 gallons short at this time on filling out the list and it's open to anyone that can physically get their fermented beer to the barrell racking party down here in the Vancouver area.  You get back the same amount of beer that you contribute, either in your own bottles or in your own kegs.

You can brew either at the brew party or on your own at home.  The brew party's are at my house.  I have a 4-car wide driveway with 2 water sources out front and I have a 12/24 covered patio in the back with 2 water sources, so I have plenty of room.  It will be quite the party.  If you're worried about getting home after a long brewing day, you can stay in our guest room that night and drive home the following day.  We'll be brewing on a Saturday.  Louie from Baders probably is the only one so far brewing at his own home.  He works at Baders on Saturday's and can't get free to brew with us.  Tyler from Baders is the co-leader with me on this project and he's our club president.

Are you interested?

Is anyone else in the Portland, Oregon area interested in joining this project?

 

[SharpsRifle]

Actually, the brew party sounds kind of fun.  Like I said there aren't any other brewers that I get to brew with or hang with around here so it might be fun.  I might even learn a thing or two!
Probably the Russian Imperial Stout with Cocoa Nibs would be the best fitting one for me to brew simply because it's more in keeping with what I would normally brew and if other people are depending on my brewing a decent beer, sticking with what I know could be best for everyone.  Bonus is I would probably try brewing it for myself as well!
The grain bill size along with if I've upgraded and tested my tun would determine if I wanted to do 5 or 10 gallons.  No more work to do 10 than 5 after all and I've got a nice Speidel 15.9 gallon fermenter that's not doing anything right now and I do like to see it full.
I might want to finnish putting together my stir plate for the yeast starter that would want but other than that it would be a matter of giving the old truck a tune up for the trip and loading it down with brew gear. 
I simply can't put all that gear into my other rigs.

What Saturday would be a key for me to participate.  I've got a couple weekends a month that I'm able to do this sort of thing.
I'm a single dad so one of the Saturdays that my daughter is off visiting her mom would be the only way this would work out for me.
I just don't see an eight year old girl enjoying a bunch of old farts brewing beer for hours on end as her Saturday!

 

[Scott Ickes]

By the way, I think that we are brewing this weekend.  One of our club members is in the process of switching to all grain.  He's scheduled to come over day after tomorrow to brew on my system, so that he understands how to set up his system.  We are planning on starting at 9 a.m.!

 

[Scott Ickes]

Actually, the brew party sounds kind of fun.  Like I said there aren't any other brewers that I get to brew with or hang with around here so it might be fun.  I might even learn a thing or two!
Probably the Russian Imperial Stout with Cocoa Nibs would be the best fitting one for me to brew simply because it's more in keeping with what I would normally brew and if other people are depending on my brewing a decent beer, sticking with what I know could be best for everyone.  Bonus is I would probably try brewing it for myself as well!
The grain bill size along with if I've upgraded and tested my tun would determine if I wanted to do 5 or 10 gallons.  No more work to do 10 than 5 after all and I've got a nice Speidel 15.9 gallon fermenter that's not doing anything right now and I do like to see it full.
I might want to finnish putting together my stir plate for the yeast starter that would want but other than that it would be a matter of giving the old truck a tune up for the trip and loading it down with brew gear. 
I simply can't put all that gear into my other rigs.

What Saturday would be a key for me to participate.  I've got a couple weekends a month that I'm able to do this sort of thing.
I'm a single dad so one of the Saturdays that my daughter is off visiting her mom would be the only way this would work out for me.
I just don't see an eight year old girl enjoying a bunch of old farts brewing beer for hours on end as her Saturday!

I'll send you a PM here.  The grains and hops will already be measured out, along with brewing instructions.  We'll probably be brewing on a saturday in middle to late october.  I'll get the recipe to you, so that you can load them into Beersmith.

 

[MikeinRH]

I bought a 20-gallon food-grade poly container online. It holds more than two 50-pound bags of 2-row. I also have a cat.

 

[Scott Ickes]

I bought a 20-gallon food-grade poly container online. It holds more than two 50-pound bags of 2-row. I also have a cat.

Is that crushed or uncrushed?  I've found that crushed grain takes up more room.