Scaling an all grain batch in BS using a recipe in BYO

[linusstick]

So tell me if my thought process is right. In the front of the magazine (Brew Your Own) they say they use 65% efficiency. The recipe I am putting in Beersmith is a 5 gallon batch. So I'm creating an equipment profile called BYO that has a 65% efficiency, I did a 5 gallon batch and just zeroed out all the losses so it's 5 gallons into the fermenter and 5 gallon batch size. I am going to enter the recipe as is, then scale the recipe using my 1.5 gallon profile that is dialed in to my system. Anyone see any flaws in this? Thanks!

 

[Oginme]

One of the issues with their 65% efficiency is that you don't know where the losses occur.  I've tried making a dummy equipment profile to mimic printed recipes, but it never seems to quite come out correctly. 

So, what I do now is to open up a new recipe template which uses my batch size and efficiency.  I enter the ingredients using the same printed amounts as in the recipe.  Once everything has been entered, I use the sliding scales below the ingredient box on the design tab to move the targets to match the specs from the printed version.  When you click on the OG slider, you will get a pop up window which allows you to enter the desired gravity reading and the software will scale the ingredients to match that gravity reading.  Likewise with the bitterness and color.  You will need to scale any dry hops or zero minute hop additions to match the changes made in the boil hop additions.

Once that is done, you can adjust your mash profile to the mash temperature which either is cited in the recipe, or which will give you an estimated FG to match the printed specs.

 

[Ck27]

One of the issues with their 65% efficiency is that you don't know where the losses occur.  I've tried making a dummy equipment profile to mimic printed recipes, but it never seems to quite come out correctly. 

So, what I do now is to open up a new recipe template which uses my batch size and efficiency.  I enter the ingredients using the same printed amounts as in the recipe.  Once everything has been entered, I use the sliding scales below the ingredient box on the design tab to move the targets to match the specs from the printed version.  When you click on the OG slider, you will get a pop up window which allows you to enter the desired gravity reading and the software will scale the ingredients to match that gravity reading.  Likewise with the bitterness and color.  You will need to scale any dry hops or zero minute hop additions to match the changes made in the boil hop additions.

Once that is done, you can adjust your mash profile to the mash temperature which either is cited in the recipe, or which will give you an estimated FG to match the printed specs.

That's how I do it!

 

[linusstick]

One of the issues with their 65% efficiency is that you don't know where the losses occur.  I've tried making a dummy equipment profile to mimic printed recipes, but it never seems to quite come out correctly. 

So, what I do now is to open up a new recipe template which uses my batch size and efficiency.  I enter the ingredients using the same printed amounts as in the recipe.  Once everything has been entered, I use the sliding scales below the ingredient box on the design tab to move the targets to match the specs from the printed version.  When you click on the OG slider, you will get a pop up window which allows you to enter the desired gravity reading and the software will scale the ingredients to match that gravity reading.  Likewise with the bitterness and color.  You will need to scale any dry hops or zero minute hop additions to match the changes made in the boil hop additions.

Once that is done, you can adjust your mash profile to the mash temperature which either is cited in the recipe, or which will give you an estimated FG to match the printed specs.

Aha! Makes sense. Now how about the fact that those recipes are all 5 gallon and mine are 1.5. Should I assume that when I enter the recipe as is it's going to show an incredibly high OG because I'm entering grains for 5 gallons? Then the sliding scale will keep the grain ratios the same but scale them back until I get to the right OG? Man in a few months of all grain brewing and asking (millions of) questions on message boards this has never been brought up to me. Hopefully I'm right about the malt. I guess the same with the hops? Enter the amount of all of the hop additions according to the recipe then scale down the IBU slider? I don't quite get what you mean about the dry hop or zero minute hop additions?

 

[linusstick]

Oh but wait a minute. If I just set all the losses to 0 on my dummy equipment profile, won't it adjust the recipe when I scale it to my equipment that DOES have the losses in it? Besides that (sorry of this sounds dumb), but wouldn't losses just affect the water in the recipe? It wouldn't do anything to the grain or hops would it?

 

[Oginme]

Aha! Makes sense. Now how about the fact that those recipes are all 5 gallon and mine are 1.5. Should I assume that when I enter the recipe as is it's going to show an incredibly high OG because I'm entering grains for 5 gallons? Then the sliding scale will keep the grain ratios the same but scale them back until I get to the right OG? Man in a few months of all grain brewing and asking (millions of) questions on message boards this has never been brought up to me. Hopefully I'm right about the malt. I guess the same with the hops? Enter the amount of all of the hop additions according to the recipe then scale down the IBU slider? I don't quite get what you mean about the dry hop or zero minute hop additions?

Oh but wait a minute. If I just set all the losses to 0 on my dummy equipment profile, won't it adjust the recipe when I scale it to my equipment that DOES have the losses in it? Besides that (sorry of this sounds dumb), but wouldn't losses just affect the water in the recipe? It wouldn't do anything to the grain or hops would it?

Starting from your top questions:  Yes it will show an intially high OG, color and IBU readings.  By using the sliders, the program will adjust the amount of grains proportionally, the hops in proportion to the IBU contributions, and the color adjustment to keep the same targets as the original recipe.  Personally, I find it a lot easier than trying to fit a recipe into a ''dummy' profile to get the OG and IBU correct and then take another step to scale it to your equipment profile; far fewer keystrokes and time.

Now the one thing that it does not affect are hop additions that do not contribute any IBU.  This is why you will need to scale these by hand.  It is pretty easy.  I look at the biggest IBU contributing hop addition from the recipe and compare that to the new value after using the slider to adjust the IBU to my equipment profile.  Apply that ratio to dry hops or any 0 IBU contributing hop additions.

The other thing this does is it leaves the yeast addition at the scale of the old recipe.  Using the 'scale recipe' feature will also adjust the yeast to match the difference in batch sizes.  Most of the time, I am working with a repitch or starter from a yeast plate, so I don't particularly worry too much about it.  The times that I am buying a new package of yeast, however, I prefer it to stay at the full package instead of scaling to a partial package.  Since I will do a starter for higher gravity beers, or simply pitch the whole package for lower gravity worts, I don't have to go back in and adjust the yeast quantity.

In answer to your last question, yes, it does matter.  The losses in the boil not so much, but losses in wort in your mash tun and losses to trub and chilling will create a greater demand for sugars to be extracted.  This is why scaling the recipe strictly by volume into the fermenter will sometimes work, but most often will be off.  Where the losses occur does make a difference in how much of your brew house efficiency comes from system losses or mash efficiency.