Who does a decoction mash

[BrewCat]

Just wondering what people think about it.
I started doing them on all my lagers. First to be traditional, then decided I liked the process. The argument was always that its unnecessary with modern malts. But I do it to caramelize the wort and enrich the color. I noticed in Germany a bit more golden color in the lagers and try to replicate that. Thoughts?

 

[Kevin58]

I have done single and double decoctions several times but found that the result is not worth the effort. Now I do a Hochkurz mash instead.

 

[GigaFemto]

I have never done one. Based on comments like Kevin's I am not really interested. I did try to boil some wort for a Scottish Ale down to syrup once, but it didn't really work out and never got thick enough in the time I was willing to give it.

--GF

 

[BrewCat]

I have done single and double decoctions several times but found that the result is not worth the effort. Now I do a Hochkurz mash instead.

Ive done the Hochkurz method not knowing it's called that. I have to do it with infusion so that is exactly why I figured might as well try decorating

 

[BrewCat]

I have never done one. Based on comments like Kevin's I am not really interested. I did try to boil some wort for a Scottish Ale down to syrup once, but it didn't really work out and never got thick enough in the time I was willing to give it.

--GF

Well I personally would not do something because what someone said. Hey I started doing BIAB when everyone was saying no good. Now everyone does it.

 

[patpawlowski]

I have not done one, but it has been on my radar. I have done the Scottish Ale boil-down thing, though, where I took the first gallon of runnings and boiled it down to a quart before adding it back in and liked the result.

 

[GigaFemto]

Well I personally would not do something because what someone said. Hey I started doing BIAB when everyone was saying no good. Now everyone does it.

Yeah, I get that. It just seems like too much work, and I don't make any light lagers. My main lager is Vienna lager and I don't think decoction would help with that.

--GF

 

[BrewCat]

I decoct my Vienna lager

 

[Kevin58]

I have not done one, but it has been on my radar. I have done the Scottish Ale boil-down thing, though, where I took the first gallon of runnings and boiled it down to a quart before adding it back in and liked the result.

The Scots did not boil down their wort nor did they use unusually long boils. That is pure myth perpetuated by romanticism and misinformation namely from noted beer author Michael Jackson.

Responding to a passage about mashing and boiling among English and Scottish brewers in the book: "Brewing and distillation. With practical instructions for brewing porter and ales according to the English and Scottish methods by William Stewart" by Thomas Thomson and William Stewart, 1859, pages 199 - 200 ...beer historian Ron Pattinson said the following...

Scots brewers preferred a short boil. Hang on, weren't they supposed to boil for hours on end to concentrate and caramelise the wort and to get colour? Oh, I remember that's made-up bullshit. Let's have a look what William Younger were up to in 1858. The only worts they boiled for more than 2 hours were for Table Beer, Pale Ale and Porter. Can't imaginer they were after caramelisation in any of those. Pale Ale you'd want to keep pale and Porter was already dark. None of the Strong beers was boiled for more than 1.75 hours.


(Scottish brewers also did not use peated malt or use peat to malt their barley)

 

[BrewCat]

Probably saved the peated malt for Scotch whiskey

 

[patpawlowski]

Now, Kevin, you seem to be disagreeing with me, but I assure you that I indeed did that Scottish Ale boil-down thing and enjoyed the results. Whether the Scotts ever did it that way, I don't know. I have also read that this is a myth, but that wasn't my point. I was just saying that it was as close to a decoction as I have gotten so far.

BewCat, my next brews will be a set of bigun's to age over the summer. A wee heavy, imperial stout, and a Belgian quad. I will also be brewing another Kolsch or two. Do you have any recommendations on how to work a decoction into any of those?

Thanks

 

[BrewCat]

Now, Kevin, you seem to be disagreeing with me, but I assure you that I indeed did that Scottish Ale boil-down thing and enjoyed the results. Whether the Scotts ever did it that way, I don't know. I have also read that this is a myth, but that wasn't my point. I was just saying that it was as close to a decoction as I have gotten so far.

BewCat, my next brews will be a set of bigun's to age over the summer. A wee heavy, imperial stout, and a Belgian quad. I will also be brewing another Kolsch or two. Do you have any recommendations on how to work a decoction into any of those?

Thanks

Well you can certainly do a decoction with any beer but I personally wouldn't bother doing it with the bigger beers. Probably enough going on there. A more delicate beer you may notice a difference. Besides, traditionally a Kolsch would have been decocted

 

[Kevin58]

Probably saved the peated malt for Scotch whiskey

Peat was widely available in the areas of Scotland that made Scotch whiskey. Beer breweries were located farther south where there was an abundance of coal. It does not make sense that they would incur the expense of hauling peat halfway across the country when they had a cleaner burning resource right under their feet.

 

[Kevin58]

Now, Kevin, you seem to be disagreeing with me, but I assure you that I indeed did that Scottish Ale boil-down thing and enjoyed the results. Whether the Scotts ever did it that way, I don't know. I have also read that this is a myth, but that wasn't my point. I was just saying that it was as close to a decoction as I have gotten so far.

BewCat, my next brews will be a set of bigun's to age over the summer. A wee heavy, imperial stout, and a Belgian quad. I will also be brewing another Kolsch or two. Do you have any recommendations on how to work a decoction into any of those?

Thanks

"I have done the Scottish Ale boil-down thing" That surely sounds like saying it is a Scottish technique. Boiling down was never a thing and it definitely was not a Scottish thing. Pure romantic and ignorant* bollox or as Ron so succinctly put it "bullshit". I find the myths of Scottish brewing frustrating and the perpetuating of those myths has to stop somewhere. If anyone boils their wort for caramelization or any other reason then it is done as a means to an end but it has nothing, zero, neoni to do with Scottish beer brewing.

*Ignorant in that people do not understand how Scottish brewers achieved a copper color, sweet finish and full body so they made up this fairy tale.

 

[BrewCat]

well I've also seen recipes suggesting doing that in a Scotch ale. I've never seen it called out as an actual technique that was used by the Scotch though. Mostly just a simple way to try and replicate a certain flavor is all. I've done it because like I said I try everything once. I have only brewed one Scotch Ale, its not I style I care for but would be willing to look at a traditional recipe if you have one. Maybe they did do a decoction. You think?

 

[Kevin58]

well I've also seen recipes suggesting doing that in a Scotch ale. I've never seen it called out as an actual technique that was used by the Scotch though. Mostly just a simple way to try and replicate a certain flavor is all. I've done it because like I said I try everything once. I have only brewed one Scotch Ale, its not I style I care for but would be willing to look at a traditional recipe if you have one. Maybe they did do a decoction. You think?

I have 30 recipes specifically taken from Scottish brewing records and there are probably many other scattered among my other historic recipe folders. Any recipe, brewer, blogger, writer, etc. who suggests boiling down wort to make a Scottish ale is just plain wrong.

The go-to source for true Scottish brewing techniques follow Ron Pattinson's blog, Shut Up About Barclay Perkins. Ron has also written two books on the subject, Scotland! and Scotland! Vol. 2. Ron posts recipes twice a week that are taken from brewing logs that he collects and analyses then converts to homebrew scale batch sizes. He goes in spurts as to what styles he publishes often depending a book he is in the process of writing. It has been a while since he has delved into Scottish styles but everything is searchable on his site. Here is one that I saved in my Beersmith folders...

Let's Brew - 1879 William Younger No. 2

Of Younger’s four numbered Ales, No. 1 and No. 3 had the most legs, stretching past WW II. No.2 didn’t quite manage such a long run, being d...

barclayperkins.blogspot.com

 

[BrewCat]

did you brew that recipe. How do you get that to stop at .035. Never used that yeast

 

[Kevin58]

did you brew that recipe. How do you get that to stop at .035. Never used that yeast

I have and I did not get it to stop that high. Mine ended closer to 1.014. A lot of Scottish recipes have high FG's. Ron publishes the gravities as written in the brewery logbooks. It could be that 1.035 was the gravity when they moved it from the fermenter to vats where it went through a secondary fermentation perhaps due to Brettanomyces. It could be the strain of yeast they used or they intentionally racked the beer off the yeast at that point because they wanted the extra sweetness.