Author Topic: Cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation??  (Read 6305 times)

Offline dazed

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Cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation??
« on: May 25, 2013, 04:58:40 PM »
I was checking my Batch Sparge math with beersmith, and started checking my Total volume of water by subtracting the absorption rate which should equal batch size.
I am left over with extra H2o. I understand water volume expands when its heated... but I look at the total volume of water as how much I need to heat up.
So my water is already at the shrinking point, when I start.
Is there a way to turn off or negate this?
Is the shrinkage number only added to the Total Volume of water and that's it dont worry, just have extra left over water?

Is the Earth really round. I'm Confuzed
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 04:35:06 PM by dazed »

Offline dazed

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Re: Why is cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 05:22:25 PM »
Ok the shrinkage hit me in the head when I realized that the mash water is about 160...so I'm assuming that's the reason for showing the shrinkage since
it expanded before the boil but after cooling. So I guess its 4% bigger at 160F than at 68F.
But adding it to total volume doesn't make sense...maybe its a bug.

Thanks...the world is all flat again.

Offline dazed

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Re: Why is cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 02:37:36 PM »
Okay back to trying to hit my numbers....

I can't/won't heat my HLT water before I measure it and use it in my mash(at this time).
So do I subtract 4% from all the numbers with 50/60 F mash water? I will raise it to mash temp (about 165) after its all collected?

My HLT won't hold all the h2o at once....and I'd rather not heat up 1 gallon at a time to reach 10 gallons(x2) of HLT water just so my measurements are right.
This 4% shrinkage is about 1 Gallon for my whole batch, and it looks like its factored into the HLT water with no option of negating it.

I brew Tomorrow, so if someone knows the correct answer I would appreciate it. I tried finding various water expansion calculators to see if this 4% is
correct for the 110F Raise in temp...but came up empty. If the 4% is correct I will just adjust my cold  mash water by subtracting it as it would expand once it hits temp.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 02:47:46 PM by dazed »

Offline brewfun

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Re: Why is cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 07:59:51 PM »
I use the number as heated volume. It seems to work well.

It's best not to take the "Total Water Needed" number too literally. That number comes from the water tab, in the recipe. The Water Prep instructions of the brewsheet add up the water needs based on the equipment profile and advanced options you set-up.  These numbers may not match.

There are a lot of factors that influence water loss. How fine your grist is milled or how fast you drain the mashtun are just two. Batch spargers sometimes try to wring out the grain, so the absorption seems lower, while fly sparging often leaves more water behind, making the absorption look greater.

I plan on having some excess. It sucks to run out of hot water and be short on the boil. The default of 0.96 oz H2O/ oz Grain is pretty accurate. Some grains are drier than others (Maris Otter is much dryer than N. American 2-Row) and it can make a lot of difference on higher gravity beers. Any excess gets used in cleanup, anyway.
Beer Appreciation is the space between pints.

Offline dazed

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Re: Why is cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 10:30:32 AM »
I don't have a problem with the extra water ....and all my volumes are tuned in like this post http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,5140.0.html
I just see a problem with me measuring out the cold water, then heating it up, and dumping it in....ending up short.
When I get a HLT with sight glass, and a tier system ill be ok, but until then I heat up each water addition separate, its
measured volume was cold h2o...so thus this shrinkage issue i'm trying to get answers to.

Offline dazed

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Re: Cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation??
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 04:39:08 PM »
Well I guess Beersmith don't have much support in this thread. Today I found that 70f-160F is like a 1% expansion of H2o.
So I just subtracted 1% of my cold strike water. Also note that the expansion from 160f-212f is 3%....so I guess thats the 4%.

Offline BeerSmith

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Re: Cooling loss added to Total water needed Calculation??
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2013, 10:47:57 AM »
Hi,
  I don't include the expansion in the mash since it is pretty small (1% or so).  I do include it in the boil since most people measure their boil volumes while boiling (marks on the boiler for example) and use that to judge their post-boil volumes.

Brad
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