Author Topic: Double grain grinding  (Read 11232 times)

Offline MikeinWA

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Double grain grinding
« on: February 05, 2011, 07:38:21 PM »
I have been reading a bit lately and seems like a few people double grind their grain trying to get a higher effeciency.  I am fortunate enough to have a great beerstore nearby and always grind my grain  with their very nice mill.

So, even though I have never had an effeciaency problem on partial 10 gal recipes or on all grain 5 gal batches I decided to grind my grain twice.

I use a 10 gal igloo cooler with a bottom stainless filter.  The grain was so fine that when I batch sparged I would get about 2 to 3 gallons before the filter would clog because the grain packed too tight and I would have to stir and start my whole batch sparging process over.  It sucked! Especially for 10 gal of wort.

I won't be double grinding again.   >:(

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 02:50:38 PM »
How fast are you sparging/laughtering? I usually always grind my grains twice, and usually grind my specialty grains more than once also.

Cheers
Preston
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Offline MikeinWA

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 04:33:29 PM »
Batch sparging so it is flowing faster than drip sparging.  It seems to be the wait of the water on the grain.  I was doing a 10 gal partial mash.

Offline porterwagner

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 09:05:31 PM »
Probably flow rate is the primary issue, but the elephant in the room is also the quality of your grind. I grind twice with pre-conditioned (2% moisture) grains and get very little flour and largely intact husks. I never have problems. That said, if you're happy with your efficiencies- why recreate the wheel ;D

Offline stevemwazup

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 01:52:51 PM »
     Hi Porterwgner:
You mentioned that you that you use pre-conditioned (2% moisture) grains and that works really well.
Do you use a spray bottle? Could you explain your process?
stevemwazup

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 05:45:05 PM »
I use a spray bottle of distilled water.  Spread grains, spray them, mix, repeat two/three times the night before.  I crush grains in AM while water is heating, so grain has time to air out and not be wetted in the mill.

The other big benefit has been more consistent traction thru the Barley Crusher.  I crush by hand, and it used to spin quite a bit and "miss" stuff.  After conditioning, it crushes very consistently.

Offline Pirate Point Brewer

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 03:42:14 AM »
We'll chime in with the others. It might be that you were draining too fast.  We batch sparge everything. We did have our grains double ground until The Princess (swimbo) bought us a Barley Crusher. By double grinding we went from a typical 65% to 70 - 75%. We aren't using a false bottom. We use a full circle braid loop. We read many times that false bottoms while great for Fly sparging, were easily plugged when batch sparging. So we use a braid clamped to two ends of a 3/8" tubing tee. The third end is pushed into a drilled #2 stopper. The length of braid was calculated to make a full circle around the bottom of the tun.  We put a brass 1/2" coupler on the inside of the bulkhead fitting and plug the stopper into it. Works great. We take it out to easily clean it and the tun after mashing. We also drain slow. Never open the ball valve more than half way, usually less.
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Offline econolinevan

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 12:03:22 PM »
I have followed Maltlicker's technique for pre grind spritzing on my last three or four brews and I am convinced it is having a positive effect on by crushed grain.  I used my wife's kitchen island counter top too, until I started using an old door set on saw horses.  More space for more grains.  A good thing.

Offline Pirate Point Brewer

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 04:39:16 PM »
Maltliker has often shared his great result from pre-conditioning his grains. What were your numbers????
I like the idea ... just haven't tried it yet! ::)

Preston
In Fall and Winter, we burn wood in the fireplace and brew beer.
In Spring & Summer, we're on the water or walking the beach!
 Then back at the dock we create a reason to brew!

Offline BobBrews

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 12:32:05 PM »
Higher efficiency can be achieved through double grinding or setting your mill adjustment tighter. But this comes with a cost when sparging. with BIAB http://www.biabrewer.info You don't have to sparge so it's not an issue. I can grind the grain to dust (with wheat) and never have problems. Normal efficiency is around 80% without double grinding or pulverizing the grain. I switched from my 3 tier setup to Brew in a Bag and have been on cloud 9 since. (or at least I have been high a lot!)
Bob Brews
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Offline MikeinWA

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 08:38:03 AM »
Thanks for the response.  I never had an effeciency problem before but figured if I can squeeze out more sugars it wouldn't hurt.  The problem was I was batch sparging, was making 10 gal so had my cooler nearly full of water, and opened the spigot fully.

I recently have been batch sparging and have been happy with the results.  The problem I felt I had was that I don't use a tiered heated system.  I drain my wort from the sparging cooler to my pot sitting on the ground and so it takes some time to drain if I go slowly causing the wort to drop in temp.  I guess it never really made a bad beer but I want to be as consistent with my temps as possible.


Offline MikeinWA

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 08:50:19 AM »
OK I looked at the brew in a bag site.  It's basically the same process as an extract brew except you need a bigger bag for all grain.  Also, I personally have a hard time maintaining contant temp on my gas burner and the igloo method allows me to only drop a deg or two over 60 min. making for a more consistent beer result when brewing the same beer over again.

Offline BobBrews

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Re: Double grain grinding
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 08:54:41 AM »
MikeinWA,

     With BIAB you heat all your water at once. 8 gallons (or so) The thermal mass of all the water, grain and pot hold the temperature rock solid. Yesterday was 28 degrees F. I had 8.5 gallons of water at 147 F. I threw a blanket over it all and 1 hour later it was still 147. This is really nice if you go more traditional. Lets say 30 min. at 133 and then 20 min at 145 and last 25 min. at 153. This is great because all you have to do turn on the burner until you reach the next step.

    That's why I like it. It's not better than any other method it's just "for me" the way to go.
Bob Brews
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