Author Topic: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!  (Read 15790 times)

Offline 88Q

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Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« on: November 02, 2009, 03:53:44 PM »
Has anyone else plugged the numbers into BS?  I get a calculated 240 IBUs, where the recipe claims 90-95 actual. I want to brew this in a day or so, but wanted to throw this out there first. To me, it looks like the 3.5oz of CTZ (I'm using the Columbus) might be off.
 
It's one of my all time favorite beers, and would really like to come close.
88Q

Offline bonjour

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 09:45:32 AM »
The published IBU's are by lab measurement, not calculated via hop addition,  That is from Vinnie himself.

For anyone that doesn't have it,  here is a copy of the Pliny the Elder recipe that Vinnie emailed me

http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20the%20Elder%20clone%20PDF.pdf

Fred

Offline Wildrover

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 01:24:58 PM »
The published IBU's are by lab measurement, not calculated via hop addition,  That is from Vinnie himself.

For anyone that doesn't have it,  here is a copy of the Pliny the Elder recipe that Vinnie emailed me

http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20the%20Elder%20clone%20PDF.pdf

Fred

Why is there a difference?  I was under the impression that you reach a point where it doesn't matter how many more hops you add you are only going to perceive so much and that threshold for most people is around 100.  Of course I have no idea where I either heard, read or dreamed that so your guess is as good as mine?,  Well, actually your guess is probably better since I really don't know

Offline bonjour

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2009, 01:35:27 PM »
Why is there a difference?  I was under the impression that you reach a point where it doesn't matter how many more hops you add you are only going to perceive so much and that threshold for most people is around 100.
The utilization of the hops drops dramatically at both high gravity and high hopping rates.  Hopping rates this high are a fairly new thing.  They were never conceived of when SNPA ruled as being an extremely high hopped beer.  As a result no research has been done at these extremely high levels.  Vinnie's lab results are but what one data point on what could be your doctoral thesis.

Fred

Offline Wildrover

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 01:39:39 PM »
Why is there a difference?  I was under the impression that you reach a point where it doesn't matter how many more hops you add you are only going to perceive so much and that threshold for most people is around 100.
The utilization of the hops drops dramatically at both high gravity and high hopping rates.  Hopping rates this high are a fairly new thing.  They were never conceived of when SNPA ruled as being an extremely high hopped beer.  As a result no research has been done at these extremely high levels.  Vinnie's lab results are but what one data point on what could be your doctoral thesis.

Fred

Mine was actually on the dark side of business to business relationships  ;) but I get your point.  Sounds like an increasing at a decreasing rate sort of thing

Offline 88Q

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2009, 03:14:42 PM »
I had a feeling it was due to the high gravity (altho its not all that high) and the lack af true data. However, I just was listening to a podcast where Vinnie was discussing that recipe, and his comments were tactically different. For one thing, He spoke of blending in some Warrior along with the CTZ to "bring it down" so to speak, and a few other things I can't recall. I'll have to listen to it again. But the Pliny served  where I get it doesn't come close to a perception of BUs stated in the recipe. Maybe my drive for more and more hop FLAVOR, has burned my buds. Who cares, I love hoppy beer. I recently did a 10gal batch of an Amarillo IPA found here (modified for more flavor and nose plus 1/2 of the grainbill was Marris Otter) and lemme tell ya.......................WOW!  Everyone raved about that one. It went way too fast! 

I've been an avid Homebrewer for some 30 years, and now live in the Pacific Northwest where supplies are abundant, and have only in the last year switched to AG exclusively. Watching the water chemistry, and many other tidbits learned here have helped me to create (with Beersmith of course) some outstanding beers!

Thanx to all the sharing guys!
88Q

Offline bonjour

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 05:17:41 PM »
I recently did a 10gal batch of an Amarillo IPA found here (modified for more flavor and nose plus 1/2 of the grainbill was Marris Otter) and lemme tell ya.......................WOW!  Everyone raved about that one. It went way too fast! 
I believe that was mine,

thank you

Fred

Offline 88Q

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 06:56:34 PM »
Fred,

If that Amarillo was your.... BIG KUDOS.
  Question. After kegging (1/3 cup dme in the beer at racking) and pressurizing as prescribed..... the first few days it was incredible the amount of that "amarillo" flavor was present.  After a few days (week or so) it really seemed to shrink back. Still an outstanding beer, but somewhat less nose and palate.

Is it my buds? Or do you think I need to do more in the boil and secondary. As it is I did an oz  (Amarillo)at 30, 20, 15, 10, 5, and 1 minute left in the boil. Then 1.5 amarillo, 1 oz simcoe, and 1 oz cluster in secondary for 14 days. Maybe the last 5 days would be better, kinda like Vinnie's Pliny does.
BTW OG = 1070
       FG = 1012 Nice and dry!
Thoughts?
88Q

Offline bonjour

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 08:52:08 PM »
I keep the gravity low (very low for me) 1.050 or a little less to  allow better hop utilization.  Because of all of the hops this beer is intended to be drank young,  just like Pliny the Elder (check the words on the bottle)  This much hop presence will fade.  If you keep it a real long time it will become a nice (not awesome) American Amber,  that is to say the hops will fade a LOT.  My Amarillo Pale Ale absolutely does not need any dry hopping. 

I'm not against anyone modifying my recipes, after all that is what homebrewers do, and I would love to try your beer.

Fred

Offline 88Q

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Re: Pliny the Elder - unreal numbers!!
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 10:11:21 PM »
Quote
just like Pliny the Elder (check the words on the bottle)

Never seen a bottle.... only on tap. But I think that will be the key. Brew, wait, keg and wait for a couple of bubbles and DRINK AWAY!

Quote
after all that is what homebrewers do, and I would love to try your beer.

I see you are in MI, but since that's along way to fly to deliver a few bottles......I will re-think some shipping ideas next time I brew my "modded" Amarillo IPA. (Do ya think they would keep OK in bottles?) Unless I know you are going to be in these parts. (NE Oregon Blue Mountains) I can take you to an AWESOME brewpub, Barley Browns. They have a blue ribbon IPA..... Shawn Kelso is the brewmaster. Real nice guy. And never short on his hop bill
88Q