Sterilization what do you do?

Thanks Preston, I feel better about the foam now... I did really like the stuff, and from the looks of this thread, so does everyone else.  In regards to the dosage, yes, 1 oz per 5 gallons.

JSherm

JSherm said:

Thanks Preston, I feel better about the foam now... I did really like the stuff, and from the looks of this thread, so does everyone else.  In regards to the dosage, yes, 1 oz per 5 gallons.

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The foam wiggs me out too.
I invert the carboy and give it some time to exit.  Jam a racking cane up inside so air can displace the foam
when rinsing with star san  I try not to agitate so that I make a lot of foam
Somewhere in my brain is a little voice insisting that I stop being so picky but still the foam looks so weird.
One day I'll make myself some foam from Star San and water.  Then pick up a heaping double hands full of the foam, put it in a clean dry bowl, cover with poly wrap to prevent evaporation, and wait till it returns to  free liquid  and see exactly how much fluid the foam represents.  I bet it ain't much.

I've always been a bleach guy, but I've had some recent infections.  Seems a good time to give in to peer pressure and buy some new cleaning/sanitizing supplies.

I've always been a bleach guy, but I've had some recent infections.  Seems a good time to give in to peer pressure and buy some new cleaning/sanitizing supplies.

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Oh don't feel like it's pressure.
Think of it as  an expanded  palette of options made known by association with  a broad and diverse group of fellow travelors.

CR said:

VonMessa said:

Star San works well, but it sterilizes NOTHING.

What it does do, is lower the pH of the environment(or surface) that it is used upon to the point where critters can't infect it.

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Have you listened to the recording from that link  ( http://cdn4.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr03-29-07.mp3?nvb=20100105210914&nva=20100106211914&t=024b279c5390ec6a49b7b  )  where Charley Talley is talking about his product Star San?
Unless he's  lying, Star San is as effective as  Water, Bleach, & Vinegar.
( here is an older one: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/dwnldarchive03-19-06.mp3 )

It's a long dialog and takes some time and patience  because the guy seems never to get to the point, but get there he does.

Here is something he said that I found hard to swallow at first:
He said that Bleach does not kill and does not sanitize or sterilize.  He says that you must adjust the Caustic acid (hypochlorous acid) content with a little vinegar to get the proper solution for sterilization and provides the mix ration of Five gallons water and one Teaspoon of bleach and one teaspoon of Vinegar. He says this gives you 80 PPM Chlorine and the correct caustic adjustment.  He says that the manufacturers of bleach are all about denaturing chromataphores (making things white)  as opposed to sterilizing things. He claims that bleach makers don't adjust the caustic correctly. Adding a bit of vinegar brings the pH down to 8 where it's lethal to  organisms.  This, he claims, will kill on contact. 

Charlie Talley is a Chem Eng from 1968 who was in the commercial bleach business for some time  (Penwah Chemical Company ? making Purex brand bleach)

Here is my take on why bleach  in water kills even while Charlie Talley says it won't:  My water is acidic.  The acid in my water must make up the caustic adjustment in the bleach.

But he claims that Star San kills everything  too and is edible to boot once the solution titration is altered appropriately.
His contention is that it's all in the titration and resultant pH.

Mind you I'm not too keen on the distinction between sterilization and sanitization.
It seems a fuzzy distinction to me, but maybe I just have the wrong dictionary.
The Second link above has some guy insisting that STERILE is the absence of all life.
OK  That works for me. But what then do I get from Chlorine and hypochlorous acid or Star San?
The makes of Star San says it Kills spores, viruses and  gram neg and  gram positive all bacteria and others.
He says it's a stone  cold killer of everything.  Isn't that sterile?

((((as an interesting aside: Dictionaries are not a good place to find any "official" or "authoritative" definitions.  This is simply because in the U.S.A. there is no official language and hence, no authoritative source. So at best, a Dictionary is a lexicographer's effort at keeping up with colloquial usage and little more.))))

But I digress
Back to Sterilization and sanitization ( I still don't know the difference).
** If I use Oxy Clean (or Spic & Span) and water I will have cleansed it. But that's all. 
** If I put a thing in an autoclave ( and it does its job)  some will say that I sterilized the contents. But there are yeasts that can survice two autoclave cycles.
** If I flame a thing with a torch or alcohol flame  I'm pretty sure I sterilized it so long as it got red hot.
** If I use a bleach vinegar and water solution of the right PPM I will kill everything and  that's sterilization isn't it?
** If I use Star San the maker claims it kills everything. If this is true is not this the same as using bleach and vinegar in water?

Then the only difference between the flame and the chemical is that the flame reduces everything to carbon~??

Proper cleaning practices are the key.  No matter what you use, if the item is dirty, it is harder to sanitize.

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Charley Talley agrees with this and even says that using bleach and getting no infections is largely the result of having  done a good job cleaning.

Not that my way is best, etc. but I use bleach on anything not stainless steel, star san, on anything that is stainless.

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I always have done  it with chlorine too.  I am converting to Star San. 

Cleanliness is next to godliness........

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A phrase that must have originated with the Trappist Monks.

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I think flashlight can be more useful than the torch.

Interesting post!  I read a lot, but don't post very much, but can't help myself here.

Me and the Mrs.' hobby is touring micro breweries and have had the privilege of brewing with a few of them.  Most of them use Idophor and a caustic for cleaning, sanitizing and sealing of SS items.  Idophor is cheaper for them and as it only lasts 4 hours, is pitched at the end of the day.  However, most would use Starsan if they could afford it and store it for next week's batch.

I personally use Oxy-Clean or PBW for washing, Star-San for sanitizing everything, and as most SS manufactures recommend, Bar Keepers Friend, (the soft cleanser only) for initial and final cleaning and sealing of all SS items.  I use SS conicals and the instructions that came with them was to polish the conical 3 times and rinse the conical 3 times prior to the first usage.  They are a manufactured item that uses oils, oily machines in a dirty factory to make, (most are made in China) and despite their best job of cleaning, are really quite dirty right out of the box.  I use the blue Scotch-Brite sponges water soaked with the Bar Keepers, and press only lightly.  My pots, conicals and even my SS sink looks amazing afterwards.

I keg everything and follow the same SS procedures for them, but when I have to bottle, I clean them by hand with a brush, then run them in the dishwasher with no soap on the sanitize schedule, cover them with aluminum foil soaked in Star-San, store them upside down in a fast rack, then rinse with Star-San prior to use.

Not an expert by any means, just reporting what I have seen and what I do.  We brew at least 10 gallons every week and have yet to have a bug. 

Cheers!

I use one step cleaner to clean all my equipment, then use sanistar to sanitize. I do keep around a spray bottle with idophor solution for quick spray downs and small bucket of the same for soaking small parts. Idophor is cheap and a couple teaspoons in a 2 gallon bucket lasts a long time. I try to use all no rinse cleaners and sanitizers to keep down on my water consumption.

I have tried three or four methods but 5-star product make it easy.  Not cheap, but what I save in time and effort is totally worth the cost.  I am a Star San and PBW.  I keep both in buckets for weeks.

bstacy1974 said:

................ because it's cheap. A gallon of generic bleach is a couple of bucks. Star San is $5 or $6 for a few ounces at my local homebrew store.

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Bleach is cheap, but even a generic bleach is more costly than StarSan, b/c StarSan is highly concentrated.  A full teaspoon of StarSan makes a gallon of sanitizer, and even at Northern Brewer's worst price, that is 17 cents per gallon.  Or, thinking in bulk terms, that $8 of StarSan will make ~48 gallons of sanitizer, or 44 more gallons than a cheap $2 bleach (4x$2=$8).  Plus, the concerns of having to rinse bleach and chlorophenols in the beer, etc.  Iodophor is even cheaper, but can stain plastics and tubing, which is a turn-off for some people. 


$$         oz $/oz        $/tsp
$7.99   8   0.999      0.166
$11.50 16 0.719 0.120
$15.99 32 0.500 0.083

I have been completely happy with Star San - have been using it since starting to brew a couple of years ago.  I always keep a five  gallon pail of the mixed stuff on hand and monitor its  pH  now any then to ensure it is still effective.

After the boil, I wash every piece of equipment that will come near the wort with it, including my hands,  I generally keg, and after dismantling and cleaning keg components, rinse them all with Star San, and do the same with any Grolsch bottles  I might use now and then.

I also keep several spray bottles full of the stuff handy!

It is inexpensive since it lasts a long time.  I particularly like the very short time it requires to do its thing, plus the fact that it is no rinse and won't stain things.

Never really considered using anything else.

Brian.

Nice thread!!  I used to use star-san but now i use iodofor for my brewing needs.  FOR CLEANING of my plastic better-bottle carboys, I do a soak of oxy-clean to knock the gunk off the sides so i dont have to scratch the plastic with a brush...so far so good with this current method,

I use Aseptox AKA(One-Step) for cleaning, it is also a sanitiser.
http://www.winexpert.com/wine-wiki/show/Cleaner,+Aseptox+or+One-Step

I also use Star San for anything that come into contact with the Wort or Beer after Boil.

Been using them both for about 3 years and never had any issue with infection.

I also occasionally use Alpet D2 on keg fittings.

Cleaning stainless is quick and simple using Bar Keepers Friend (Citric & Oxalic acids). I have used the powder and liquid for years, but have now switched to and prefer their spray and foam version. The spray bottle gives you the option of foam or spray mist. The spray version rinses clean more easily than the powder or liquid.

Available at Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, and larger grocery chains.

Sanitize with Star San
6 ml/ gallon is CHEAP
NO RINSE means one less thing I have to worry about on brew day! .....priceless!

Chlorine is detrimental to brewng water, skin, and stainless steel. Iodine is a environmental disposal problem.
Kind of a no brainer
~riverbrewer