IC wort chilling

Immersion chillers have one stem that starts at the top and winds down, and a second stem that goes to bottom of the coil and winds up. 

I heard once to always put the cold input into the topside stem so the water drives downward thru coil. 

Any science in cooling to this, or does it not matter? 

I don't know about thermal dynamics, but it made sense to me when I made mine. So that's the way I made it. I do know that Heat travels from hot to Less hot so you will get a chilling effect no mater how you make yours.

Cheers
Preston

In injection molding of polymers, to get more mold cooling faster one turns the coolant water valve closed a little bit on the out-flow end to increase the pressure and slow the water down.  The phase change characteristic of water causes it to  accept more energy once it's a little warm. You end up cooling the mold faster.  Seems counter intuitive but it works.

I fed the bottom stem today and cooled to 59F in 24 mins, very comparable to last time on upper stem.  But since I was told by many friends here it made no difference, I did not switch both lines this time.  I just disconnected the garden hose and attached the pump and switched directions.  That saved a few minutes and got the ice water moving sooner.  Ambient temps make a big diff; I had ice remaining today. 

Have you seen my immersion heat exchanger?

It's two separately fed 25' coils  one spirals horizontally the other vertically like most others do.
I  stood it up on little legs to get it near the top of the wort so the colled wort falls down and drives the hot wort up to be cooled.
Works super fast and no need to stir or agitate.
http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af143/zydaco/?action=view&current=0107101512a.jpg&newest=1
http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af143/zydaco/?action=view&current=0107101515b.jpg&newest=1
I soldered the whole ting together to keep it rigid.  Makes for a pretty sturdy unit that is easy to deploy as there are no floppy coils.

Maltlicker, UselessBrewing, & CR,

All of you are using and IC.  We purchased a small plate chiller early on and now have questions.

Are there advantages for an IC over a plate type?

How did you guys decide which to use?

Preston

I did not want a plate chiller b/c I figured some type gunk would get stuck in there.  And seeing a friend use one recently it dawned on me that plates are a little more dependent on the water temps b/c you get one pass to reach your desired temps.  With an IC, you can chill first, whirlpool and leave the gunk in the boiler and transfer very clean wort into the fermenter. 

With an IC, I can chill until I get bored.  As long as I have some ice in the recycling water, my submersible pump keeps pushing the ice water through the wort.  In the summer, I've chilled down to 58F knowing that by the time I let it settle 30 minutes, transferred and ready to pitch, the temp would rise to 64F or so for pitching. 

Maltlicker,

You mentioned a submersible pump. What did you choose?

Preston

It's a Wayne 1/6 HP.  Bought at Lowe's.  Any size will do.  I also use it move rainwater between barrels in the garden.  After cooling to ~120F with tap water, I switch hoses and recycle ice water until it's around 60-64F, depending on the ambient temps. 

Pirate Point Brewer said:

Maltlicker, UselessBrewing, & CR,

We purchased a small plate chiller early on and now have questions.

Click to expand...

Questions? Is it nor working for ya?

Are there advantages for an IC over a plate type?

Click to expand...

Well the soft copper tube IC is  - - well cheap to make so right there  is an up side.
I think it lends itself to a cleaner operation too.  After all unless you buy a plate chiller that you can take apart  you are going to have to rely on  other means to get it clean.  The take apart plate heat exchangers are very spendy.

The real reason why any industrial process uses a plate heat exchanger is space.  the things are very small for the thermal exchange you get from them.  This makes 'em easier to store when not in use and the hobby brewer would like that.

How did you guys decide which to use?

Click to expand...

I thought long and hard and just made the cheapest most effective HEX I could.  I was dammed if I was going to pay for a HEX.

In my new brew design I'm building an integral heat exchanger.  It's about  a hundred feet  of half inch SST thinwall permanently built into the brew kettle

CR, Maltliclker, & Useless

Yes it works great! I purchased the lower priced Shorrne. It is compact. It works well enough that as the winter deepens, I throttle the input tap water to keep from overchilling. So performance is not a problem.

Cleaning hasn't been either. I back flush with 135* hot tap water for at least 5 minutes as soon as I have pitched the yeast and locked up the fermenter. I repeat the flush and sanitize before each use. One brewing season into it and 35 batches run through, no problem. I use a vortex vacuum pump in the exhaust water to create a vacuum in the fermenter. The vacuum transfers the wort from the boiler to the fermenter. Air holes in the fermenter dip tube provide aeration. Very simple. Very Compact. So far very effective and CHEAP!

The "gunk" is why I asked. I try to be careful not to transfer the hot break and gosh knows what else off of the bottom of the boiler. But by nature of the operation, cold break goes down the tube and into the fermentor with no good way to stop it. I'm uncertain if this is and issue or not. We like our beer. It clears well and seems bright. But you know, we have to have something to worry about. ;D

Reusing yeast is what brings up the question. I haven't wanted to go with the washing/starter route. My practice is to transfer from primary to secondary on brew day. I just collect a cup of "Gunk" from the bottom of the primary and pitch it. I haven't had a bit of problem out through 11 reuses. The problem is .. I don't exactly know what is in the cup of gunk I pitch. There must be some yeast or we would be drinking wort soda.

I've read that the gunk in the bottom of the boiler has beneficial yeast nutrients. I've read that the gunk in the bottom of the boiler will create off flavors in your beer. ??? Nobody has said anything about cold break. What is it? Is it more gunk? Is it just a term for getting the wort temp out of the danger range quickly?? Will either limit the number of my yeast reuses. You know, on the first reuse my cup of gunk may be 90% yeast and 10% gunk. At some point will it be 50/50 or 10% yeast 90% gunk? What does your experience tell us? Useless has become a yeast guru so what goes?? ???

Depending on your transfer processes, the "gunk" is generally a mix of the "hot break" and "cold break" materials that made it to the fermenter.  They have slightly different compositions, the hot break being "broken" out or separated during the early boil, and the cold break being broken out during a speedy and dramatic cooling.  I *think* that once they're broken out, they remain insoluble and fall to bottom of fermenter as gunk.  What effect they have there is debatable. 

I definitely think that ineffectual or slow cooling leaves more "unbroken out gunk" in the wort and that material has a negative effect on the beer. 

Seems like a lot of work to me. I NC (No Chill) my beer. I draw it off boiling into my "Cube" (trub, Hot break and all) The next day after it has cooled and separated I siphon off the wort into the fermenting bucket. No "no muss no fuss" I have only entered two beers in competition and both placed so the system works. I still have my copper coil hanging in the garage, "ya never know"?
http://www.stempski.com/biab.php

Here is my  brand spanky shiny new  integrated chiller

It's about 100 feet of 1/2" thinwall SST


Why so many feet?
Well, I was in a hurry.
No really,  I wanted to take up some room in my BK.  It's a 20 gallon stock pot and they way they make 'em  is they are as wide as they are tall. So I killed two birds with one stone.  Got a fast  heat exchanger and raised the water column.

CR,

Nothing that Clean & Shiney could possible make good beer 

Is that a zip-tie on the brace? Do you just water blast the hops/trub off of the inside?

I only have a 50 foot SS tube, but it works great for 5 gallon batches. When I switch to ten gallons batches, will coiling the hose in a bucket of ice water help chill 10 gallons with a 50 foot coil of 1/2 inch stainless tube? or are counter-flows a MUST with tens?

Using 50ft of 1/2 inch copper, a friend regularly chills 7 gallons down to lager temps ~40F or 45F.  I think the biggest factor is the temperature differential between the wort and the water going thru the IC (or plate). 

Even warm tap water cools boiling wort down to 120F fairly quickly, and then we both switch to a pump and recycle ice water thru IC to increase that differential again.

I tried something with my last brew which may seem to be a little caveman like (no offense to actual cavemen), when I was ready to cool my wort, I hooked my basic 25' copper coil to the outside spickit,(artisian well) and sat my boiler into a plastic garbage bag, tied the bag opening to fit tight just a few inches below the rim of the boiler, stuck the out flow hose into the bag (after the outflow had cooled some) and let er go.  It looked awful weird like, my boiler was sitting in some kinda warped inner tube, but damn if it didn't cool my wort off quicker than ever.  The cold water against all that stainless steel surface of the outside of my boiler was cheapest, quickest way ever.
The ideas you get when drinking good homebrew. 

Ok, I will go back to my cave and drink.

econolinevan said:

I tried something with my last brew which may seem to be a little caveman like (no offense to actual cavemen), when I was ready to cool my wort, I hooked my basic 25' copper coil to the outside spickit,(artisian well) and sat my boiler into a plastic garbage bag, tied the bag opening to fit tight just a few inches below the rim of the boiler, stuck the out flow hose into the bag (after the outflow had cooled some) and let er go.  It looked awful weird like, my boiler was sitting in some kinda warped inner tube, but damn if it didn't cool my wort off quicker than ever.  The cold water against all that stainless steel surface of the outside of my boiler was cheapest, quickest way ever.
The ideas you get when drinking good homebrew. 

Ok, I will go back to my cave and drink.

Click to expand...

I do the same thing sorta. I fill a wash tub (the galvanized kind you bob for apples with) with cool water and plunge my pot in it. After the IC runs cooler I feed it into the tub water. Seems to help shave 10-15 minutes off. More time to make cave paintings.

Yes, my first thought was to use a large container similar to yours, but when I came up with the thought, it was time to chill, and I didn't have a container large enough to accommodate pot with ball valve.  So in my beer induced, Neanderthal state I came up with the bag.  Your apple bobber tub is a good idea.  My only thought on it now would be to sanitize the ball valve after removing from tub, before you transfer cooled wort to primary.  I didn't think of that last time, but did not encounter any problem.  Just to be safe I think I'll spray down with some idopher solution before I transfer next time.
Brew on cave dweller!

BB