Author Topic: Made a small batch of NEIPA and had to add 6 cups of DME to my all grain recipe  (Read 916 times)

Offline tdibratt

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Hi folks, i made a 2.5 Gallon NEIPA yesterday..  Here is the grain bill and water .  I was supposed to be at 1.047 Pre-Boil and 1.070 SG into fermenter.  I wasn't hitting anywhere close to this and ended up adding 6 cups of DME to bring it up to 1.065.  BH Effic 65%.  I lowered it to 65% from 70% to intentionally add more grain.   I've never been this far out and I even double crushed.  I do a recirculating BIAB.  Water volumes started at 6.2 Gallons and ended around 4 gallons in the kettle before moving it off to fermenter.  So the equipment seems right..



Offline Oginme

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Without being able to see your actual numbers (screen shots are OK, but to really troubleshoot attaching the .bsmx file helps greatly), there is one thing that stands out up front. 

If your normally getting a brew house efficiency (BHE) of 70% with a 5 gallon batch and have the same trub loss of 1.3 gallons at the end of the process, then your process losses as you go down in volume become much greater of a percentage of the sugars.  With a target of 5 gallons going into the fermenter and a loss of 1.3 gallons between end of the boil and the fermenter, then your percentage loss is 1.3 gal / (1.3 gal + 5 gal) = 20.6%.  Indicating a mash/extraction efficiency of around 70% + 20.6% = 90.6% which is quite high to begin with.

Now you drop your ending volume in the fermenter to 2.5 gal and have the same 1.3 gal process loss, your loss in sugars is 1.3 / (1.3 + 2.5) = 34.2%.  You dropped your BHE to 65% so you have forced the software to a mash/extraction efficiency of around 65% + 34.2% = 99.2%, even higher. 

When I make a process change of that magnitude, I usually drop my BHE appropriately to keep my mash efficiency close to the same value as I would have achieved in the original batch size.  With your apparent numbers, I would have reduced my BHE by the difference in the process losses: 34.2 - 20.6 = 13.6%.  My initial target for BHE would have then been 70% - 13.6% - 56.4% as a starting point and modified it based upon the results of my actual brew for the next time.

Which brings up another point, I noticed in your screenshot of volumes that you did not enter in the actual measured values.  If you enter in your actual measured values for volumes and gravity into the 'session' tab, then the program will calculate out your actual mash efficiency and BHE on the sessions tab to help you troubleshoot your issues.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline tdibratt

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So the proper way to have scaled a 5 gallon recipe would have been to use the BS Scale feature and change the Batch Size to 2.5 Gallons and the BH Effic down to 58% thus holding the Mash Effic around 88.2% in the original recipe?  I deleted the water 6.2 Gallons and added it back and it was added back at 6.27 Gallons so guessing that step isn't needed.  I see the Grain Bill went from 7.4 to 8.4 Lbs.  So I end up with another pound of grain which hopefully would have gotten back to the original recipe OG.

Offline Oginme

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When I have that large of a volume change, I make a new equipment profile for that batch size range.  That way I can scale automatically to the actual BHE and process losses for that batch. 
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Offline tdibratt

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New profile with 2.5 Gals and BH Effic of 56.4% is the only change.  All other factors remain the same as the losses don't change.  Then open the original recipe for 5 Gallons, scale recipe and pick the new equipment profile.  OK makes sense..

Offline tdibratt

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In the comment made 90.6% mash extraction is quite high, what would this typically be for BIAB?  I want to reset my BH Effic based on that and my losses in my system.  Thanks

Offline Kevin58

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My BIAB efficiency has been 60 to 65%. Have you created an accurate equipment profile? Taking the time to do so will make your brew day so much easier. If not then you will always be frustrated. Take a look at this. https://youtu.be/QmW7pwQP5mQ And this will help you make a BIAB mash profile. https://youtu.be/VKiEjhxo2oo
If you?re stressing over homebrewing, you?re doing something wrong.
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Offline Oginme

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In the comment made 90.6% mash extraction is quite high, what would this typically be for BIAB?  I want to reset my BH Effic based on that and my losses in my system.  Thanks

While I have achieved mash lauter efficiency that high before (90.2% to 91.7%), it was with very low gravity beers and was not sustainable as the grain bill was increased.  Further those beers came out very thin and watery; not at all what I was shooting for.  At those high levels, there is also the high chance of extracting unwanted compounds such as silicates.

If you look back at your previous brews and have input the measured values for gravity and volumes, then the program will display your actual efficiency for both mash and total versus your estimated efficiency based upon your equipment profile.  I recommend using this as a guide for adjusting your equipment profile to more accurately reflect your process results.  In my experience, the mash efficiencies I have achieved are more consistent than the BHE, since the amount of wort I transfer to the fermenter is often based upon how much I leave behind in the kettle, and that varies with loading of protein rich grains, hops, and other additives.



 
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!