Batch Sparge Mashouts

I'm curious why you are mixing up two and half gallons of Star San? I get by an entire brew day using only half a gallon. Star San only needs to make contact with the surface so a little bit in a vessel rolled around to wet all the surfaces works just fine.

For a better understanding of how bacteria and things like unwanted wild yeasts cling to surfaces... how to clean them and sanitize them (and what the difference is between the two) watch one of Brad's video podcasts on the subject:

https://beersmith.com/blog/2019/02/17/cleaning-and-sanitation-with-rick-theiner-beersmith-podcast-187/

https://youtu.be/TyBiDvphGHs

Oginme said:

I never go by airlock activity to judge fermentation progress.  You don't know if he lid is leaking or the stopper is not seated properly. 

1.005 from 1.046 gives you an apparent attenuation of 89%.  Then again, this is a var. diastaticus yeast strain, so it may go lower yet as it sits.  What type of hydrometer do you have?  Is is a regular full brewing range scale or are you using a finished gravity hydrometer (scale from 1.000 to 1.020 or so)?  Have you checked the zero of your hydrometer in distilled water at calibration temperature? 

Next, what are you using for equipment on the cold side.  List anything that touches the wort after chilling along with the material it is made of.  I just want to identify anything that may be of concern and am looking to rule out possible issues so we don't keep going over them looking for where you may have an issue.

I would recommend using some Iodophor to sanitize just to rule out anything that might be clinging on and getting past the Starsan.  Especially now that you are using a var. diastaticus yeast you will want to make sure that you do a sanitizing with something that will damage any residuals in the equipment (this only applies to post fermenter equipment).  I run a sanitization with Iodophor a couple of times a year and Starsan for everyday use.  Some bugs which may be able to withstand the Starsan get hit by the Iodophor, but I prefer the utility, non-staining Starsan for most other sanitization which needs to be done.

Other than that, I change tubing annually and plastic (bottling wands, auto siphons, etc.) every couple of years as these tend to get brittle and scratched with age and may harbor things I don't want in my wort. 

If I think of anything else, I will repost.  Meanwhile, let's see if we can get through to find out just what your issue might be and get you through it.

Click to expand...

I verified the hydrometer on brew day with distilled water at 60F.  it was spot on.  i also calibrated my refractometer, and then verified their readings matched. 
Cold side, I ferment in a bucket.  initially I used a blow off rig I made from an old 3peice airlock and some tubing, but switched to just the 3 piece airlock when I took these readings.  (technically those never touched the beer though but hose is filled with starsan which is then drained into the blow-off vessel with the hose.

so I add my immersion chiller at 15 minutes.  at flame out I put the lid on as best as you can with the chiller heads sticking out, and begin chilling (copper).  in this case there was a 5 minutes steep for the camomile, and final hop addition first though.  i added both before turning the heat off.  when that is done I pull the chiller out.  use a plastic spoon that's been soaking in my starsan bucket to get it whirl-pooling as best as i can to help control the trub coming out of the valve.  I put the lid back on and wait a good ten minutes.  then attach my transfer hose (also soaking in starsan bucket), open the valve and drain into my bucket through a metal mesh strainer(also soaking in starsan).  after transfer I sanitize the dropper for my refractometer and take a gravity reading.  usually set this aside for about ten minutes while i pitch my yeast.  I do that by decanting the starter most of the way, swirl it up, use a magnet to pull stir bar up the side and out and set aside, pitch yeast and then whisk with a metal whisk (also soaking in starsan) to oxygenate and stir in.  form there i usually spray down the lid and put it on the bucket, and then connect the blowoff rig or airlock.

to your points about post fermentation equipment i use the typical plastic racking cane, bottling wand, and typical transfer tubing.  i've got a plastic 3-piece thief that I use for taking hydro samples (always sanitized first).  I still usually do transfer to secondary on most of my beers.  (secondary is either a glass carboy if no additions, or a second bucket if there are additions) then transfer to bottling bucket, mix priming solution in and bottle.  again everything hits the starsan before touching the beer.  priming solution is sugar, plus two cups of water boiled for five minutes and placed into bottling bucket before transfer. 

I've never replaced my tubing, or racking/bottling gear.  possibly this is a problem?  it's all about four years old and fairly heavily used.

kevin58, I make a 2.5 gallon bucket, but use it for about a month or two for brewing, transfers and bottling.  I check the PH to make sure it's in spec and keep it clean.  i do keep a spray bottle of it on hand as well.

How old is the bucket you are using to ferment in?  How do you clean it after the fermentation?  I would start here.  This is where Iodophor comes in handy.  A properly diluted solution of iodophor sprayed on the bucket walls will show you if there are scratches which may not be getting fully cleaned out.  The color of the iodine in the solution will be darker where the scratches are.  Light scratches should really not be an issue, but deeper ones would be harder to fully clean out.  The HDPE used for buckets is a pretty soft plastic and is easily gouged with little effort. 

You can do the same thing with your tubing and siphon, but honestly they are cheap enough to replace every so often and cleaners such as PBW and One Step usually start making the flexible rubber seals a little brittle after so many cleanings anyway.  For me, two years of use is around 60 to 70 batches, so the cost comes out to less than $0.15 per batch.  Not bank breaking and well worth it considering a 10 liter batch is around $17 and I would be several batches deep before knowing that I had a problem.

This is the low hanging fruit and the most probable cause of some contamination.  I am hoping that it is something this simple, as tracing things down becomes more difficult beyond these items.

I bought a new bucket/lid on amazon last year and have been using that one.  so the buckets fairly new by comparison.  my other bucket that was my primary and now i use as a secondary is about 4 years old.    After Fermentation i scrub the bucket with dish soap and a typical dish scrubber brush, then rinse really well.  it's stiff bristled.  maybe too much?

Note, the older bucket i only use when adding things like fruits, or dry hopping.  otherwise my secondary is a Glass carboy (If i bother doing a secondary at all).  another topic I suppose, but i like the idea of doing a secondary despite the feedback from the community that it's not necessary.  at any rate, the numbers are already low at this point anyway so i don't think the transfer is the point of contamination if there is one.

considering the age of my equipment maybe i'll pick up a new siphon kit.  i see alot of them come with tubing and bottling wands now too.  i'll also pick up a bottle of iodophore.  is there a specific brand or is the five star one what i should be getting? (IO Star)

When I used buckets, I always cleaned with PBW (around 120F) and a soft wash cloth following a soak (allowing the bucket to come to room temperature.)  Even on my plastic carboys I do not use a carboy brush but a PBW soak and sloshing a small amount of PBW around with a cotton wash cloth.  Never had a problem as long as I tackled the cleaning immediately after bottling/kegging. 

If you don't want to wait for Iodophor to see if you have scratches in your buckets, you can use food coloring for the test.  I have a small spray bottle that I use for a variety of miscellaneous solutions and spray down the sides of plastic containers to test for scratches.  Anything that looks suspicious ends up as a cleaning bucket or bulk grain storage, so it does not go to waste.

BTF Iodophor or IO star are pretty much the same thing, both being based on the same active ingredients.

+1 to immediate cleanup.  I've only once not done that and it was a a price to pay.  Well I guess i'll have to get my fall lineup figured out and get them ordered so i can start testing some of these theories.  Appreciate all the Feed back though, and i plan to take some actions moving forward to help prevent this as an issue in the future.  I just gotta remember to post back and let everyone ,know if i got under control.

I can't think of any crazy yeasts that from a residual amount (we're talking hundreds of cells) left in a bucket could multiply and outcompete pitched yeast (millions of cells) within three days.

from reading through the posts, and checking your recipe, you're using a light body mash at 150F, if this is off and a bit lower, say 145, than getting an apparent attenuation of 87-89% isn't too far from normal.


to answer a question I had for myself, taking your recipe: if I drop the mash step to 145F I get an Estimated FG of 1.005

If I increase the max attenuation of 3711 to 85% (if adding o2 and yeast nutrients this should be easy) and keep the mash step at 145F I get a est FG of 1.004

I've attached this simple, small change for you to see without altering your recipe