Author Topic: Brut IPA  (Read 2959 times)

Offline brewfun

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2019, 12:49:31 PM »
Brewfun-

I'm curious your thoughts on shelf life, i give my NEIPA 4-6 weeks, my DIPA's 6-8 weeks, are you saying you are getting a consistent 12-16 week or so shelf life out of your Brut without significant flavor changes?

Kegged, I can get 5 months out of the brut without too much hop drop. Now, that's different than saying there's no changes. All beer ages and changes. At 6 months it's definitely too far gone to be sold. I've put a 4 month sales expiration so that customers have a full month to sell it.

With bottles, it has to be on shelves by 2 months and is probably done for at 4 months. I try not to bottle or can IPAs for that reason.

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How high are folks carbing? I was thinking 4 volumes or so to gain that effervescence.

I shoot for 2.7 vols. Over 2.4 is problematic for some tap lines. I don't think the beer benefits from high CO2 because the hops are already foam positive and all that gas can add a bitter chalkiness to something so dry.
Beer Appreciation is the space between pints.

Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 08:00:54 AM »
@Brewfun Any improvements you think you'll make on your next round of it?

I was debating adding any hops other than FWH, WP, and Dry. do you feel the 15min hops really add anything? from my TINY bit of understanding of the style, it shouldn't have much if any bitterness so i was planning on keeping kettle hops to just a touch for binding as FWH and then just whirlpool and dry.

Granted i dont know if i'll ever make a perfect recipe, but i think even beers that i've brewed 10+ times i make a tweak every batch. granted i'm still just a meager homebrewer ;)
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Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 07:43:28 AM »
Thanks all for the input. Going to go with a Kolsch yeast (wy2565) I just recently brewed a cream ale with I think, shooting for 1.056

40/40 pilsner and maris otter base
15 corn
5 sucrose (instead of rice)

and currently planning single hop variety with NS, but that may change on brew day (saturday!) when I'm actually sifting through hops in the freezer...
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Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2019, 09:26:30 PM »
Of course, my refractometer is broken... that was a fun thing to find out. not sure how, why, what, where, etc it got broke, but I will have beer.
Generally being a bit of a control freak, i'm just going to let it ride. It'll be ok.. it will be ok... it will be ok...

went with a citra FWH, NS/Citra 30m@175 Whirlpool and will be doing NS/Citra ddh.
went with 40 pils, 25 maris otter, 25 vienna, 10 corn

as an aside, "Ultraferm" i bought in a hurry via online vendor was $5 for "5 gallons"

grabbed some generic powdered Glucoamylase from the LHBS for $2.50 and it appears to have enough to do about 50 gallons... kinda annoyed about that.

Being a pretty regular brewer for the last 10-15 years, with a pretty locked down procedure on a lot of things, and a very nice home built system, this brew day couldn't have gone much worse for me. But in the end, I'm going to have beer, and something to learn from. New refrac on order, I just wish i could keep a hydrometer on hand, seems like they last one brew day for me and then i break them somehow lol.
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
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Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 11:56:49 AM »
hit .995 a few days ago and has stalled out there. Originally went for 1.056 gravity thinking "oh this will be a nice 5-6% beer" not even thinking about the fact that i'm planning a 100%+ attenuation...

Whoops!
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
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Offline brewfun

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2019, 08:41:39 AM »
hit .995 a few days ago and has stalled out there. Originally went for 1.056 gravity thinking "oh this will be a nice 5-6% beer" not even thinking about the fact that i'm planning a 100%+ attenuation...

Whoops!

0.995 is perfect! You're looking at just water and alcohol, of course. How does it taste?
Beer Appreciation is the space between pints.

Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 01:09:32 PM »
DEEEE LICIOUS

 I went ahead and dropped it in a keg and it's sitting on 2psi while i debate filtering... its hazy, which i definitely expected. I'm just trying to determine if i want to run it through a .5 micron filter to clear or if that'll kill too much of my hop flavor.

I think the Nelson Sauvin really shines in this beer. I'm almost a little sad i decided to mix citra in with it, although i think it also added a delicous bit of passion fruit and citrus, where the NS doesn't really have those tropical fruity notes, i find it to be more grape and stone fruit (some would disagree with stone fruit, but i get it so...)

Definitely excited to run this batch again and change up a bit of the malt bill i think. I wanted to add the vienna for a bit more flavor, but with the enzyme addition i think it kind of killed off the flavor that it normally imparts. I'm thinking a small addition of honey malt (3-5%) could benefit this beer, or perhaps even just some straight honey to give a bit more of a wine/mead like flavor.

I'm also thinking of running a bit different water profile, more chloride to sulphate than the yellow balanced provides to help add that malty mouthfeel considering that the over attenuation kind of kills that. this should help with the body, making it a bit "thicker" without actually adding any gravity. Although, that kind of kills the concept? I'm not sure. Overall its fun to experiment with!
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Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
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Offline brewfun

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2019, 07:21:11 AM »
Definitely excited to run this batch again and change up a bit of the malt bill i think. I wanted to add the vienna for a bit more flavor, but with the enzyme addition i think it kind of killed off the flavor that it normally imparts. I'm thinking a small addition of honey malt (3-5%) could benefit this beer, or perhaps even just some straight honey to give a bit more of a wine/mead like flavor.

With the enzyme, you can use malts with bigger flavor than you might, otherwise. As the enzyme converts the dextrines, you're left with the "essence" of the malt, not the sweetness. This was the most surprising and delightful effect, for me.

I don't get an obvious honey character from honey malt. It adds toastiness to the overall malt flavor. One of the few malts where the aroma doesn't translate to the finished beer.
Beer Appreciation is the space between pints.

Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2019, 07:52:49 AM »
interesting, i definitely get honeylike sweetness and kind of a "foamy" mouthfeel when i use honey malt in 3-5% range.

Went ahead and carbed it up over the weekend, I was 100% surprised at the body this beer had, I expected it to be thin, crisp. It's not!

I was also concerned the alcohol would overwhelm the beer, DON'T EVEN NOTICE IT.

Brought a growler to a friends place, he was shocked. Felt it was better than the two commercial examples he'd had. was also shocked to learn the ABV and FG. I'm really digging this!
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
Primary: empty
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Next Brew: RIS

Offline jomebrew

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2019, 09:14:29 AM »
Keep in mind using amylase in the fermenter can increase diacetyl. It is important to have a good diacetyl rest. That has been and still is a problem with Brut IPA. 

I add amylase to all my beers now and try to stop them at 1 plato. Not for the "Brut" effect but for a 30% or so reduction in carbs where my typical final gravity was 3 plato.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 08:34:50 AM by jomebrew »

Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2019, 09:37:19 AM »
I perform a diacetyl rest on nearly every beer I brew. No notes of Diacetyl in this beer, so I must have done something right :)

I always hope to have a "Great" beer even on my first time brewing a beer, this exceeded my expectations. I'm excited to improve on a beer i already find to be "Great"

a note on enzymes though. I used Whitelabs "Ultraferm" as my Glucoamylase source. It's expensive. I picked up a generic labeled powdered Gluoamylase enzyme from my lhbs, I'm curious as to if any of you who have brewed this style have had experience between different types/sources of enzyme?

I used 2 vials in my mash (says 1per 5g, mash was for 15g) and 1 vial per 5g fermenting. Being unfamiliar with using enzymes in this manner, could i/should i have used more? less? is there any standard amount per degree P per volume to reach certain goals?
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Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
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Next Brew: RIS

Offline jomebrew

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2019, 08:43:51 AM »
I use this one in my fermenter only. I add about 1 teaspoon.  https://fermentationsolutions.com/amylase-enzyme-1-5-oz/ It does not seem to matter the amylase you use (crushed beano works too) though there may be some differences in the conversion percentage.

The originator of this style, Kim Sturdavant, advises to use it in the mash at 143 - 146f adding it after 20 minutes letting the mash settle. He also suggested you can add it to the kettle after all the wort has been transfered and hold it at 145F got 30 minutes then bring to  boil and brew normally.

For me, adding to the fermenter, performing a good diacetyl rest then packaging as normal has been successful.

Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2019, 09:36:45 AM »
Are you implying that there is no difference in the results between α-amylase and β-amylase additions as well as glucoamylase?

I now feel the need for experimentation. 1g with alpha-amylase, 1g with beta-amylase, and 1 with glucoamylase added to the fermenter of a wort split off for those three different enzyme additions.

from my pretty brief reading up on the enzymes, it would seem the glucoamylase or Alpha-glucosidase debranches maltose to two glucose units. whereas alpha-amylase is primarily responsible more for breaking down starches into maltose and glucose. I'm still mostly an idiot when it comes to all of this so perhaps my understanding is wrong, as it would seem an addition of both would be beneficial at certain points.

However glucoamylase seems to be the enzyme thats "making the style" in some ways, which seems mildly odd to me as my understanding of yeast is that they can use glucose and maltose with no issues, so an enzyme that breaks down maltose into 2xglucose isn't really that helpful?
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Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
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Offline brewfun

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2019, 07:11:58 AM »
from my pretty brief reading up on the enzymes, it would seem the glucoamylase or Alpha-glucosidase debranches maltose to two glucose units.
Maltose is 2 glucose, joined at the (1-4) bond. Beta Amylase makes this. Alpha Amylase breaks the (1-6) bond. Given enough time, Amylase can produce both glucose and maltose, but not as effectively as Beta Amylase.
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whereas alpha-amylase is primarily responsible more for breaking down starches into maltose and glucose. I'm still mostly an idiot when it comes to all of this so perhaps my understanding is wrong, as it would seem an addition of both would be beneficial at certain points.
For fermentation, maltose and glucose matter. Polysaccharides (aka dextrines) are not usable by beer yeast because they don't produce the enzymes. The flora associated with "wild" fermentation do have the enzymes, but that's not part of making a Brut.

What's important is the cell walls of the yeast. Healthy yeast will utilize maltose. Unhealthy, under pitched, under oxygenated yeast tend to make cell walls that process only glucose. In any all malt wort, glucose is 3% to 4% of the available sugars. Once the glucose is consumed, the yeast stalls out. OTOH, in even high alcohol environments (>6%), yeast will consume glucose (and dextrose). The speed of consumption is determined by how much contact the yeast has, meaning flocculated yeast is slower than when it;s in suspension, of course.
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However glucoamylase seems to be the enzyme thats "making the style" in some ways, which seems mildly odd to me as my understanding of yeast is that they can use glucose and maltose with no issues, so an enzyme that breaks down maltose into 2xglucose isn't really that helpful?
There is a whole family of amylases that all pretty much end up in the same place: digestible sugars.
Glucoamylase is a "digestive" enzyme that has two parts, each working on different substrate. It'll break existing starches into polysaccharides, then break those into simple sugars that yeast can consume.

In terms of fermentation results, there really shouldn't be any functional difference. However, the types of sugar produced and the yeast strain can always interact to give unexpected flavors.
Beer Appreciation is the space between pints.

Offline dtapke

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Re: Brut IPA
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2019, 08:33:56 AM »
So the predominate benefit to glucoamylase is that its debranching the maltose into 2 glucose units which yeast is far better equipped to handle than maltose.

beta amylase and alpha amylase both produce glucose and maltose from various starches and polysaccherides. however the addition of the glucoamylase takes the maltose that was produced by the beta and alpha amylases and breaks them down into 2 glucose units is my understanding. therefore i would think that adding additional beta and alpha would have little effect assuming all of the conversions they can do, were done during the mash?

thats where i'm getting lost i think. Beta and Alpha are primarily responsible for conversion during the mash, and i assumed their jobs were done by the time you start boiling... therefore glucoamylase as an addition is beneficial because grain doesn't have enough glucoamylase to perform that function during the mash?


UGH. Time to break out the old biology books :P

answer me this please: Where is the shortfall that the benefits from the addition of enzymes in fermentation?
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
Primary: empty
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: RIS

 

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