Author Topic: Adjusted Water Profile is not Final Water Profile  (Read 1159 times)

Offline bryanwal

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Adjusted Water Profile is not Final Water Profile
« on: March 30, 2019, 12:13:01 PM »
When brewing I use 100% RO water and add all my mineral additions to the mash (to limit the amount of acid I have to use). I add CaSO4 and CaCl to the mash to achieve the desired Ca, SO4 and Cl amounts. When using Beersmith 3, I have noticed that the "adjusted water profile" does not factor in the dilution of the untreated sparge water when manually imputing mash-only mineral additions.

For example: A 6 gallon batch of beer calls for 4.25 gals of mash liquor and 5.25 gals of sparge liquor. If I manually add 4g (1 tsp) CaSO4 and 1.7g (0.5 tsp) CaCl to the mash Beersmith displays an adjusted water profile of Ca= 90.7 SO4= 137.1 and Cl= 59.3. These numbers are inline with the mineral contribution of both CaSO4 and CaCl (CaSO4 = 1g/gal 62 ppm Ca and 147 ppm SO4, CaCl = 1g/gal 72 ppm Ca and 127 ppm Cl) in 4.25 gals of liquor. This is correct for the mash but is false for the final, overall water profile (aka the target water profile) since it doesn't not factor in the dilution from the untreated sparge liquor. The actual adjusted water profile that should be displayed is Ca= 39 SO4= 62 and Cl= 23.

Is there a fix to this so I don't have to manually calculate the actual, adjusted water profile? It should also be noted, that if I add additional minerals to the sparge water, the adjusted water profile does not change. I am running Beersmith 3 on a Mac if that makes a difference.




Offline BOB357

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Re: Adjusted Water Profile is not Final Water Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2019, 04:28:47 PM »
In the water panel, add together the amounts of each salt you use and manually enter those totals in as the mash additions. After you have done that, delete the sparge additions. Continue on to the mash pane and make your acid addition as needed to reach your desired estimated pH.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 04:32:05 PM by BOB357 »
Bob

Offline Oginme

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Re: Adjusted Water Profile is not Final Water Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 05:49:11 AM »
I wasn't sure just how to answer this at first but I think some information may help.

The purpose of the mineral additions in BeerSmith is predominantly to better estimate the mash pH, so all the calculations are based with that focus.  As BOB357 recommended, you can do the switch on the water tab approach to give yourself an idea of what you think the water profile will be after the mash.

I say 'what you think' because there are a variety of other mineral inputs into the system once you add the grain to the water.  A recent profile of barley malt I downloaded from Muntons gave the concentrations of Calcium as 350 to 600 mg per kg and Magnesium as 900 to 1000 mg per kg of barley malt in their analysis.  These probably vary quite a bit based upon where the barley was grown and the variety of the barley.  How much of this gets into the wort is a matter of what form the Ca and Mg is present in within the barley malt. 

The analysis sheet I found did not give any concentrations for Chloride or Sulfates, so I can guess that they were not included in the testing. 

I say this not to discourage you from doing salt adjustments to your mash and wort (heck I do them myself and can validate the affects), but to give a feeling for what the scope of the whole picture in terms of mineral and salt additions in the context of the final wort.  If I had some spare cash and time on my hands I would love to do a study on total mineral additions and the effect on the finished wort and beer.
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Offline dtapke

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Re: Adjusted Water Profile is not Final Water Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 07:29:12 AM »
call me confused. If i set up a batch/brew to match a water profile, BS calculates salt additions for both the mash and the sparge. therefore i am adding salts to all water quantities, mash water and sparge water.

I can also do as bob said and just create a water profile for XX gallons of water and start there.

in the recipe, under the "water" tab i also have the option of holding Sparge Salts until the boil.

as far as compensating for mineral content of the grist... I've thought about it, but not too much. I use RO/DI water myself so i always add a dash of extra salts.

I have the means to titrate out Mg and Ca, i may do a small congress mash for fun and see how much mg and ca i come up with using untreated water...
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Offline dtapke

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Re: Adjusted Water Profile is not Final Water Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 07:33:44 AM »
Looking at it, i kind of see perhaps what you're saying? say i've got a target of 100ppm Ca, it adjusts my mash to 114ppm, and my sparge addition only allows 94ppm. This is because its impossible to get exact quantities of specific elements in water so the program does its best to get the Ca where you want without adding too much SO4 or Cl.
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
Primary: empty
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: RIS