Author Topic: [PRIMARY] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)  (Read 1046 times)

Offline Grummore

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Please, someones punch me in the face.

Tonight, I brewed what should have been a Witbier (Hoegaarden clone like).

BUT, as I was toooo eager to brew something new, I didn't checked out my list of ingredients (brought by a friend on last monday). I had no reason to dought the merchant, because he never did an error. But still... I should have checked.

It should have been :

Code: [Select]
Style: Witbier
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 25.36 L
Post Boil Volume: 23.96 L
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 L   
Bottling Volume: 21.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume       
0.30 kg          Oats, Flaked [Steep] (1.0 SRM)                   Grain         1          6.5 %         0.20 L       
0.30 kg          Wheat, Flaked [Steep] (1.6 SRM)                  Grain         2          6.5 %         0.20 L       
2.00 kg          Pale Liquid Extract [Boil] (8.0 SRM)             Extract       3          43.5 %        1.42 L       
2.00 kg          Wheat Liquid Extract [Boil] (8.0 SRM)            Extract       4          43.5 %        1.42 L       
20.00 g          East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 mi Hop           5          11.0 IBUs     -             
10.00 g          Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 15.0 min                    Hop           6          2.0 IBUs      -             
15.00 g          Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)              Spice         7          -             -             
4.00 g           Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)                   Spice         8          -             -             
1.0 pkg          Safbrew Wheat (DCL/Fermentis #WB-06) [50.28 ml]  Yeast         9          -             -             

BUT, there was NO Pale Liquid Extract and NO Wheat Liquid Extract.  :o

With what I had, I managed to do that, replacing the Pale/Wheat Liquid Extract the following (and changing the quantity of Coriander and Peel to pimp a bit the flavor to hide the difference of malt).

Code: [Select]
1.81 kg          DME Golden Light (Briess) [Boil] (4.0 SRM)       Dry Extract   3          46.4 %        1.16 L       
1.50 kg          LME Golden Light (Briess) [Boil] (4.0 SRM)       Extract       4          38.3 %        1.04 L       

1.00 tsp         Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)                  Other         7          -             -             
25.00 g          Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)              Spice         8          -             -             
10.00 g          Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)                   Spice         9          -             -             
1.0 pkg          Safbrew Wheat (DCL/Fermentis #WB-06) [50.28 ml]  Yeast         10         -             -             

What kind of thing will it get out of that? What should have I done instead? (was too late to get what was needed, the shop is 200km far and it was tooooo late...)

I need your comments on that.

Thanks peoples!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 10:58:59 PM by Grummore »

Offline brewfun

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2019, 08:14:51 AM »
You'll get something with the correct yeast character, but not the cloudiness. You may also find the body a bit light because it lacks the wheat proteins.

It's still going to be tasty and drinkable, even if it's not exactly what you planned.
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Offline Grummore

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2019, 06:06:46 AM »
You'll get something with the correct yeast character, but not the cloudiness. You may also find the body a bit light because it lacks the wheat proteins.

It's still going to be tasty and drinkable, even if it's not exactly what you planned.

That's what I was hoping so. Thank you :-)

Offline Grummore

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2019, 06:16:00 AM »
HELP

Brewed Friday night and pitched yeast roughly around 1 am.
After 7 hours, krausen was up and running.
BUT, at the end of Saturday, nothing. No more krausen!!! (I had a little drop in temperature over Saturday in my home; 18?C; I don't have a fermentation chamber)

Still nothing on Sunday and this morning too. I will check the density when I'm back from work, but what should I do?

? Should I pitch a new pouch of yeast depending on the gravity?
? Should I stir to give more oxygen (or not because of oxidation or contamination)?

Thanks for your insights.

Offline Oginme

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2019, 06:35:55 AM »
Follow these instructions exactly:  Take a deep breath and let it out slowly, get a beer out of the refrigerator (or if it is too early, pour a cup of coffee, tea, or water), set a reminder to check the gravity of your beer in about 4 or 5 days.  Check it again a few days later and if the gravity reading is the same, it is time to bottle.  If it is not the same, repeat a few days later until the gravity readings repeat themselves.

Generally, I give my ales a 2 week fermenting time in primary before doing a cold crash to drive the yeast out of the beer for bottling.  The yeasts I use I have gone through the repeated gravity readings enough to know that they will take about 4 to 8 days (depending upon the strain) to finish up.  The additional time is a buffer to make sure that if I under pitch or the yeast is less than fully healthy that I don't interrupt the fermenting and end up having to put it back into the fermenter to finish.  I've not brewed with the Safale wheat yeast so I would err on the longer side to start and then check gravity to make sure it is finished.

I know that some can be turned around in just a few days, but it is not worth the risk or the panic to me and I like to keep a fermentation schedule I can easily repeat every time.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline dtapke

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 09:02:25 AM »
I would like to point out that there is no such thing as "Too Early" for beer...

otherwise... 18C isnt even CLOSE to low enough to cause any fermentation issues. the krausen just dropped. it'll do that.

I'll assume you're using a bucket? if the airlock isn't bubbling, more than likely the bucket seal isn't sealing. This isn't a problem.

wait a week, wait two weeks. HECK! WAIT THREE WEEKS! and then re-evaluate. check your gravity. give it a tiny taste even.

most importantly, relax. people have been brewing beer for thousands of years, and i can assure you that up until the last few decades, nobody panicked after only a few days.

the only thing i would question is what temp was  the wort when you pitched? you brewed friday night and pitched at 1am you say. did it cool properly before pitching? if you're just pitching dry packs of yeast, it won't cost much to throw another pack in, so i wouldn't think twice about it.

Oh also i see no hops in your second recipe? is it a malt beverage now? :-P
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Offline Grummore

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 10:04:24 AM »
Thank you both.

Just for information, these were the same beer except for the malt extract (same hops, etc.).

Yes, the beer is actually in a bucket with only a cap half locked. Always did that without trouble (yet).

The yeast was pitched at 22?C.

Three questions:

Like you both wrote, if I want to keep it on a longer fermentation, shouldn't I transfer it to a glass carboy with an airlock?

Since OG was over 1050, should have I put 2 packs instead of 1 to begin with?

I don't have anymore S06. Would another type of yeast do or it would change too much the beer or I don't know since I've never used 2 different yeasts in one beer.

I am going to have to read a bit about "Cold crashing" too. I often see peoples write about this, but I haven't took the time to properly inform myself.

Offline Oginme

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 10:39:31 AM »
IMHO, you will have more exposure to oxygen if you transfer it.  Let it ride out in the bucket.

With dry yeast and assuming a 5 gal batch size, you should be fine with 1 pack.

With a Wit, you really want that yeast character to come through.  If you were going to pitch another yeast, make it a real clean strain like S-05.  I really don't think you need it though.
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Offline dtapke

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 11:46:30 AM »
22c is fine, 18c is fine.

secondary is pointless 9/10 times and probably causes more problems 1/2 the time

more yeast wouldn't have hurt, but likely won't help. My only concern was that perhaps the beer wasn't cooled enough.  beersmith has an excellent pitch rate calculator for future brews that may help take some of the guess work out of it, but it's fine. its fine. its fine. (yes, it's fine)

wouldn't worry about cold crashing myself, lots of mixed opinions on the matter anyways. if anything it would create a further deviation than you've already got as it would remove some yeast from suspension
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Primary: Pilsner
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: IPA?

Offline Oginme

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Re: [JUST BREWED] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2019, 12:09:51 PM »
In terms of the cold crash, I gave a general description of how I handle ale yeasts.  There are always exceptions, such as for a hefe- or a Wit.

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Offline Grummore

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Re: [PRIMARY] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2019, 01:41:16 PM »
I went with your suggestion as of not doing a secondary. So it is still in the primary since the brewing (13 days ago). If the gravity no longer changes (which I suppose), I will be raking it into standard beer bottles.

BUT

How would you proceed to separate the sediments? Usually, since I do a primary and a secondary, there isn't much remaining sediments after two decantations. The only good filtration object I have is a hop spider. Otherwise, it's a cane and tubing and don't touch the bottom gunk.

Offline Oginme

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Re: [PRIMARY] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2019, 01:48:20 PM »
I normally siphon off into a bottling bucket.  I put the priming solution in the bottom of the bottling before I start siphoning and allow the flow of the beer to mix with the priming solution.  I then bottle from a spigot in the bottling bucket into sanitized bottles and cap.

If I do bring up some trub or yeast from the bottom of the fermenter, it generally settles pretty fast and is left with the 100 cc or so which remains in the bottling bucket.  Just to be sure, I use white caps on the last two bottles (versus silver or gold for the rest) and mark them to test for carbonation and clarity in two weeks and three weeks. This way the beer with the most Oxygen exposure is in the last two and if some trub gets in, it is tested and consumed quickly.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 01:51:32 PM by Oginme »
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Offline Grummore

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Re: [PRIMARY] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2019, 02:14:58 PM »
Interesting! Thank you!

So you mean that the yeast or particles will settle down rapidly at the bottom before I bottle? How long does it usually take if I don't want to expose too long the beer before I start bottling?

Offline dtapke

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Re: [PRIMARY] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 02:35:48 PM »
quickly. within minutes.

yes you're right on with siphoning part. DONT STICK THE TUBE IN THE GUNK ;) easy enough right? but most of that gunk will almost instantly settle out if you do grab some. even if you get some, itll be minimal in the bottle and you won't likely notice it, as you'll have a sedimentary layer in your bottles anyways.
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Primary: Pilsner
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: IPA?

Offline Oginme

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Re: [PRIMARY] Witbier (Should have been Hoegaarden clone, but...)
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2019, 04:45:27 PM »
DONT STICK THE TUBE IN THE GUNK ;) easy enough right? but most of that gunk will almost instantly settle out if you do grab some.

This ^^^.

And also, keep both the fermenter and the bottling bucket still.  I start the siphon about half way down the liquid level and then lower it slowly as the beer level goes down.  Only at the very bit last do I nudge the tip of the siphon into the trub on the bottom.  The key is not to stir up a cloud of yeast, trub and gunk from the bottom as you go.

Once you have the beer in the bottling bottle, the maximum exposure to oxygen will be at the top surface.  The act of bottling creates a plug flow (laminar flow) which keeps the liquid pretty much draining out from the bottom slowly and minimizing currents which can mix oxygen enriched fluid with the rest of the beer.  This is why the last two bottles are important to mark and use up quickly as they will have the greatest chance of excess yeast and highest level of oxygen exposure.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!