Author Topic: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?  (Read 2213 times)

Offline Silicon

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 10:56:47 PM »
personally i've been starting from plates lately...

Plates?

Yeast "washing" is rinsing the yeast slurry with an acidified water wash...

What most people actually practice is yeast 'rinsing' which is the act of trying to reduce the amount of trub and non-yeast material in the slurry.  The goal here is to end up with mostly live yeast cells with little other trub coming along for the ride.

I didn't know of the 2 different terms. I've been saying "washing" when what I mean is "rinsing", so thx. :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 11:00:28 PM by Silicon »

Offline Oginme

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2019, 05:34:18 AM »

I'm leaning strongly towards #3. I especially like the diluted beer aspect, makes a lot of sense to me. My gut says this is a good base I can start with, then branch out from there and experiment. I've been having lots of ideas this week, but I think I'll play it safe, start slow, and wait for experimentation once I get and read the Yeast book. Many thanks for your thoughts and experience, I mean it. The more I read online, the more varied everyone's opinions and experiences get, and I'm seeing a lot of conflicting statements from people, making it hard to come up with a good plan. But, what I've been getting from you guys, esp. you, dtapke, and brewfun jibes really well and makes lots of sense. I know brewing is half science and half art, but it seems elsewhere is slanting more heavily on the art side of things. ;)

You will need a good supply of sterilized water.  I use quart canning jars and a pressure cooker to sterilize both the water and the storage jar.  I can do up to 7 jars at a time and always keep some handy for other uses, such as topping off a fermenter, rinsing flasks of iodophor (when I don't have the time to allow it to dry naturally), quick starters, etc. 

As far as the art/scientific balance, there is a lot of anecdotal information around when it comes to home brewing, along with myths and old wives tales.  I try to preface my observations as just that or as my experience when I am not completely sure of the universal applicability of my practice.  I always like to divide it by process which is science and recipe which is an art.  There are cross-overs to be sure, but the general concept holds. 

I count myself lucky in that I work in a science based field with a lot of very intelligent people around me.  This also gives me access to a lot of publications and data sources which are not available to the general public so I will sometimes go on binges of gathering papers and articles about a given aspect of brewing to get to know the subject matter as well as I want. 
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Offline Oginme

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2019, 05:39:13 AM »
personally i've been starting from plates lately...

Plates?


By plates I am referring to cell culture plates or petri dishes.  It is an alternative to slants which are done in cuvets or tubes and tends to take up more space.  At my age, I find the open plates easier to deal with than the narrow openings on slants.  I can easily see the different colonies and pick off the ones that I want to reproduce more readily using the plates.
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Offline dtapke

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2019, 08:10:43 AM »
Art is inherent in science, and generally vice versa.

Yeast plating/slanting is a process where you start with a petri dish, fill it with a media (malt agar) and then deposit literally the tiniest amount of yeast (ideally single cells) across it so that they can create colonies. This allows you to start multiple yeast starters from "clean" cultures. It's really, really, nerdy. its like a hobby within a hobby.

For me, i do it because i brew small nearly commercial size batches (15-30g) and it allows me the ability to get a lot of healthy, mutation free yeast for really cheap. Re-Pitching (washing/rinsing) is one way of saving $ on yeast, and also reusing which is great, unfortunately it has its downsides. Mutations, breeding higher flocculatting yeast, higher infection chances, and others.

I'm not saying re-pitching is bad, it's just not for me. As they say, "Your Mileage May Vary"

my practice will be different than your practice will be different than oginmes practice will be different from Vinnie Cilurzos will be different than (keep going....)

you've gotta develop your own workflow and habits. It's great to pull from the resources and learn from other brewers, but you've also got to find your own path.
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Offline Silicon

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2019, 05:44:04 PM »
You will need a good supply of sterilized water.

I count myself lucky in that I work in a science based field with a lot of very intelligent people around me.  This also gives me access to a lot of publications...

ditto. I'm a sr. software engineer at the major aerospace company in WA.(Systems Design & Integration Specialist, now doesn't that sound fancy? lol) We have full text for all journals, articles, etc. and I know how to find anything...I once dev'd for Serials Solutions. :D) Anything I want, any time, and I don't even have to leave my desk. Lots of engineering types around, not many homebrewers, though. (I'm working on that...)

I'm also kinda lucky in that our water profile is really close to my German beers, and not too far off for my Scottish ales, either. My water goes through 2 filtration systems, then boiled, and stored--short term only--in a glass carboy. (I use it for my sinus rinse stuff, too, hehe.) Even my sourdough starters have never been invaded by bacteria. (Pineapple juice ftw!) That's what got me started on my yeast learning.

Art is inherent in science, and generally vice versa.

Yeast plating/slanting is a process where you start with a petri dish...

I totally agree about the art+science part, but I think most people don't get it. Everything's inter-related and I have to be fairly good at everything, goal's to be a SME for the most important things. I'm an inventor by nature and the holism, I believe, is what allows me to look into rooms through windows others don't use. My talent is analyzing things & processes, storing it away in my mental toolbox, then--at really weird times--these processes pop into my head, giving me some totally different way of doing something new. I can see everything working w/o closing my eyes. (The kids think it's funny.) Sometimes, someone's thought of it before me, and that's cool. But sometimes, it's something unique, and sometimes even revolutionary or, at least, evolutionary. I'm also a perfectionist, though, which is why I know I'll eventually be doing petri dishes, simply because now I know that I can. :)

Some day, I'll be where you are, or at least close. Kids in school, brewing out of the kitchen, garage being used for storage, concrete foundation has an RV on it instead of a workshop...but that'll change in a few years. Meanwhile, it's low-budget kitchen brewing for me. I'm patient, though.

Ok, now off to start my 1st starter. (Man, doesn't that sound redundant?)  The plan is a plain 2L starter, rinse a 1.050 Marzen's trub after moving it into the secondary, then immediately use all the yeast in a 2nd 1.065 Marzen where I'll need the extra yeast, thus the whole thing instead of 1/2.

Thx again guys, I'll let you know how this turns out next week. /cheer
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 05:48:58 PM by Silicon »

Offline dtapke

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 08:10:52 AM »
I went on vacation, and just got back, Hope this all went well!


as far as this goes:

"Some day, I'll be where you are, or at least close. Kids in school, brewing out of the kitchen, garage being used for storage, concrete foundation has an RV on it instead of a workshop...but that'll change in a few years. Meanwhile, it's low-budget kitchen brewing for me. I'm patient, though."

I'm a divorced mechanic who's now in a great relationship, no kids yet, but soon, and I've got a brewery in my basement i've built from scratch over MANY years! We're currently spending all our money paying off the ladys 300K in student loans, so anything i do is on the cheap! Recently came across a 3X 1/2 barrel kegerator for $150 so i'm rehabbing that, but it'll be awesome when its done!

oh, and we live in a 1200sqft house with a 1 car garage, and share the car between the two of us! It's all about making it work :)
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Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
Primary: empty
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: RIS

Offline Oginme

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Re: Can I get some help with my 1st yeast starter, please?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 05:58:56 PM »
Hey!  There is nothing wrong with brewing in the kitchen.  It is where I do the majority of my brewing.  In fact when our last gas stove fried the electronics, I went with SWMBO to pick out a replacement that had a high output burner sufficient enough to continue brewing.  She can't complain too much, some of the downtime is spent cleaning the kitchen and it usually cleaner when I finish brewing than when I started. 
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

 

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