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Decoction Question and profile setup

KBLanier

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I was trying to set up a profile for decoction and was wondering how you account for the boil time of the wort removed. My intent is to remove the required wort and then boil it for 30 minutes then return it to the mash tun. The only option I see in the profile section is the step temperature, step time, and the rise time. If I set the step time for 30 minutes then the profile is shown as the set temperature when in fact the mash is still at the original temperature for that 30 minutes. I'm confusing myself trying to explain but I think you get the jest. Any comments would be helpful.
 
For decoction, the step time is the time that the mash will rest before you pull the next decoction.

The rise time is the time the decoction is expected to take, plus the time to add it back to the main mash and get to the rest temperature. In other words, from the time it's pulled to the time it's reintroduced.

The fact that the main mash will hold the same temperature while decoction is going on is something that BeerSmith doesn't illustrate, but is assumed in the process. Likewise, if you hold temperature steps in the decoction itself, it's just something you'll do and BeerSmith doesn't record it, so it should be in your notes for the recipe.

 
I'm about to try a decoction mash for the first time and I've been researching the process but still have questions.  Any advice would be appreciated.  The main question I have is prior to boiling the decoction, is there a temperature rest in the kettle or do I boil the decoction without a rest?  The Mash Steps from BeerSmith would suggest taking the decoction directly to a boil.  It also appears, from what I've read, the boil time can vary from 20 minutes to 1 hour.  The rise time I see in the BeerSmith mash profile would suggest once the boil is achieved the decoction is added back to the mash and the mash rests for the Step Time. 
 
hartley said:
I'm about to try a decoction mash for the first time and I've been researching the process but still have questions.  Any advice would be appreciated.  The main question I have is prior to boiling the decoction, is there a temperature rest in the kettle or do I boil the decoction without a rest? 

Your initial infusion will (or should) get you to the first rest step. Once the grain has absorbed water and the temperature is stable, it's time to pull the first decoction. Water absorption takes about 5 to 10 minutes, depending on how finely you've milled your malt.

It's going to take some time to raise the decoction temperature, and you should be stirring to avoid scorching. On the first decoction, you should stop for 5 minutes at each conversion rest temperature you intend for the main mash (you can skip mashout, of course). This ensures that the decoction will get fully converted before being reintroduced to the main mash. After the first decoction, the rest points aren't so important.

One pro tip is that if you need to thin out the decoction, use new water, rather than mash water. You'll destroy fewer enzymes. The additional water is only replacing what you started with, not adding to it.

It also appears, from what I've read, the boil time can vary from 20 minutes to 1 hour.  The rise time I see in the BeerSmith mash profile would suggest once the boil is achieved the decoction is added back to the mash and the mash rests for the Step Time.

I think it depends on the vigor of the decoction boil and the beer you're making. The main goal is to just gelatinize starches for better conversion in the main mash. Longer boil times can add melanoidins to the finished beer. It can mean a deeper color as well, which isn't what you want for a Pilsner. I would expect that longer boil times would mean less vigor, more like a heavy simmer, so that all the water isn't driven off.
 
Thank you for the input.  That was very helpful.  I'm making a Doppelbock so I may try boils that are a little longer (20 minutes or so) and less vigorous.  I appreciate your adding the comment on adding water to the boil if needed.  I wondered about the water losses during the boil.
 
I highly recommend reading Kai Troister's writings on decoction mashing which can be found at http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing.

This gives a in detail explanation of the decoction steps and different mash profiles.
 
I don't know if this will be helpful or not...

https://youtu.be/IIQPQmELWPo
 
Oginme said:
I highly recommend reading Kai Troister's writings on decoction mashing which can be found at http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing.

This gives a in detail explanation of the decoction steps and different mash profiles.

COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

And I would add that his site is an absolute wealth of fantastic information.
 
I recommend checking out Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beer book.

I like having a slightly thicker mash as that will make it less likely to destroy the enzymes as you raise the decoction temperature to boiling. I don't stop to "rest" the decoction as it's not necessary. The multiple around the world temperature increases/decreases are enough to convert the starch. most of the conversion is done in 10-15 minutes anyway and the adjustments in temperature are more than enough for conversion. Just make sure you're getting thickest mash portion for the decoction. The last decoction is generally the thinnest portion since the enzymes are no longer needed and you need the hotter temps to get to mash out.

Mark
 
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