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brewing volumes too much

nogoer

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2 out of the last 3 10gal batches i have ended up with ~14gallons into the kettle where my numbers in beersmith are for 12.44. It's telling me i need 6.56 gal for mash water and then 2 sparges of 4.45gal each. From the 6.56 mash water im ending up with 4.5gals of first runnings.  Beersmith is saying i should have 2.52 gals of grain absorption but it appears theres only about 2. I'm just not sure whats off that beersmith is saying use X amount of water to reach a 12.44 gal boil and im ending up with 14 gallons?

Under the volumes tab i also notice its saying 3.54 "avail from mash". Seeing as thats a full gallon below what im actually getting could this simply be from too high of a grain absorption setting? The 6.56 mash volume - 2.52 grain absorption though is saying i should have 4gals first runnings not 3.5 so im sort of confused.

Thanks for any help
 
What could be off, since you noted the difference in water retained in the grains, is the calculation for grain absorption.  Since you have numbers for this, convert it to oz of water per oz of grain used and update the factor for grain absorption under 'options' > 'advanced' > 'grain absorption.

You should also check pre-boil and post boil volumes to figure out your evaporation rate and update that in your equipment profiles.

 
Pre boil i had roughly 14 gallons, but i only had 12 gallons going into the fermenter. Since i was shooting for 10.5 gallons into fermenter the 1.5gallons of overage seemed to just carry right through the whole process. I have my evaporation rate set to 1.5 gallons which is about an avg depending on time of year because i brew outside.

Im going to change my absorption rate like you mention and see what that does to the numbers.

thank you
 
ok change of absorption rate went from .96 fl/oz to .76 fl/oz but left the intial mash water at 6.56 and only changed the 2 sparges to 4.19 so roughly a half gallon less in total. Allowing for ~1/2 gal in error thats still a half gallon too much. The boil off rate seems accurate but if i increase it for what i actually got of 2 gallons beersmith is going to add even more water. Boil off shouldnt really have any effect though as the water from mash/sparge is too much not the wort into fermenter.
 
Sorry for the post blasts, but i think i just figured it out. On the mash tab there is a "tun deadspace" volume and a checkbox "adjust mash volume for deadspace". I had a value of .5 in there which might be default but i did NOT have the checkbox checked. I changed the value to 0 and watched the sparge volumes drop to 3.94 gal.

I think theres a bug where beersmith is calculating sparge volumes based on this value whether the box is checked or not. That or i assumed i would need the box checked for the value to change. So the grain absorption and this value zeroed out has accounted for the 1 gal of too much water. Even if there is .5gal of tun deadspace i tip it and drain it so the value is essentially 0.

Actually further on the bug, i was just toggling back and forth from changing the box value and checking buttons and now its actually reversed the sparge values. Checking the box with a .5 value in the volume is showing me less sparge water than havign it unchecked.
 
You may need to look at other process losses in your system:  what is in your equipment profile versus what you actually lose in your process.  If you have way too much wort going into the brew pot but are coming out at the volume you need, then your boil off rate is higher and should be set to reflect your actual number.  If not, then you will then be chasing your gravity measurements pre- vs post boil. 

 
Oginme said:
You may need to look at other process losses in your system:  what is in your equipment profile versus what you actually lose in your process.  If you have way too much wort going into the brew pot but are coming out at the volume you need, then your boil off rate is higher and should be set to reflect your actual number.  If not, then you will then be chasing your gravity measurements pre- vs post boil.

I am having an issue of 1.5gallons too much all the way into the fermentor. Should have 12.5 into kettle but had 14. Should have 10.5 into fermenter but had 12. The tun deadspace checkbox is the most likely culprit for most of the water and the grain absorption the rest. I also dont have a precise way to measure the water im using so theres a margin for error with that as well.

It turned out that the last brewday before this one i for some reason removed the tun deadspace value on that specific recipe copy. Then I curiously wondered why when i kegged i only got about ~9 gallons into the 2 kegs. So i think i resolved the water overage but now i am expecting a shortage that i need to sort out so that i actually end up with ~10 gallons when i keg. I didnt log how much went into the fermenter so i cant say for sure where the loss occurred.
 
Volumes are critically linked to gravities and I didn't see you mention if your gravities were correct at your volumes.
Always check your volumes and gravities pre and post boil, and into fermenter.  Also check your runnings gravity and make sure it doesnt drop below 1.010 (cooled sample). Once your boil kettle has reached pre-boil volume and gravity, you need to think about stopping the runnings. Record and lower water in mash for next batch.
Take the time to graduate your boil kettle so you can check actual volumes while brewing and know when to stop the boil. A weak boil will leave you with high volume and under gravity. If it isn't quite ready after 1 hour  keep going until specs are met. Actual loss accuracy throughout your brew process is critical.  Measure your losses at all steps one fine brewday. Take that trub and brew left in the boil kettle, fermentor, chiller,  bottling vessel and pour it into a graduated container.  Then plug those numbers in to all the loss fields-trub loss, transfer loss, evap loss, loss due to cooling, absorbtion, chiller loss, etc, . Then if you want to end up with 10 gallons bottled, make your batch size 10 gallons plus all losses. e.g -for 2.5 gallons in losses make batch size  12.5 gallons.
Sometimes you dont lose as much as you or beersmith estimates.
  Check your equipment profile to ensure it is accurate or create a custom profile to represent what containers you are actually using.  My mashtun deadspace is 0 as I use a bazooka sceen. If you use a false bottom, measure the volume of liquid left under it to verify deadspace.
For me, to make 10 gallons I use a 12 gallon batch size to ensure I end up with correct gravities and at least 10 gallons of finished beer. If your gravities are right you may end up with a few extra bottles if you minimize losses, but at the correct gravity. CHEERS
 
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