Author Topic: Late Extract Additions  (Read 13262 times)

Offline cmbrougham

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Re: Late Extract Additions
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2004, 03:22:39 PM »
Glad to hear you tried the late addition... I think you'll like the results!

I should have warned you about it foaming like mad! I generally take the pot right off the heat, add the extract and dissolve it well, and then get it back on the heat. I crank it up to get it close to a boil, and then once it starts to heave, turn it down really quickly and start stirring. It's probably the one biggest drawback to the late addition.

I think I understand what you're saying regarding the program, ibrewalot. I think the one thing that we're trying to figure out, though, is how the late addition affects hop utilization, which to me, is the biggest effect of the late addition. Your idea would make the recipe formulation easy, though!

Keep us posted on the results of this batch...

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Re: Late Extract Additions
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2004, 04:11:35 PM »
Hi all,


 I started working on adding this feature to BeerSmith over the holiday but the equations are complex.

 Unfortunately it does not appear quite as simple as just adding up the contributions from the with extract and without extract IBU calculations to get the total IBU contribution.  For late extract additions, much of the bitterness has already been extracted from the hops by the time you add the extract.  Thus the math gets a bit complex - its not a simple addition.

 I think I have a reasonable way to adjust the utilization to reflect the late extract, but is anyone aware of any hard data/studies that have been done on late extract additions?  It would be nice to have something to back up my hunches!

Cheers!
Brad
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Offline cmbrougham

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Re: Late Extract Additions
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2004, 01:22:43 AM »
Thanks for working on this, Brad! I imagine it's difficult--hop utilization is already sort of a subjective thing, especially when there's not really any good way for homebrewers to measure it.

Basically, the way I understand it, is that you're looking for a way connect wort gravity to hop utilization. Presumably, the program already does this--right? I mean, how else would you get to the IBUs that are generated? I don't know much, if anything, about brewing chemistry, and I know less about the mathematics, but would it be safe to assume that with a late extract addition, up until the actually addition itself, you're boiling a 1.000 specific gravity wort?

Let's say you're doing a 60 minute boil, total. The extract will be added to reach a gravity of 1.040 with 15 minutes remaining in the boil. To keep things simple, let's just say there's a single hop addition, at 60 minutes, with a pellet hop of 10% AA. I may be oversimplifying things here, but--could the hop utilization be calculated with a 45 minute boil of a 1.000 gravity wort, and then a 15 minute boil of 1.040 gravity wort? I realize that none of the calculations here are direct--there's curves and diminishing returns and all the rest of it. But then, I don't think we need 12-decimal point accuracy here... a ballpark figure might be suitable.

Of course, my batches make the situation more difficult, because I do partial mashes and add whatever's extracted from that to the boil first, for the full time, and then add extract later. However, I think the same principal would apply. Of course, then we've potential carmelization of the wort that could factor in, along with a buzillion other things. Hmm... I'm beginning to see the difficulty here.

Well, I don't think I added anything of use here :) Best of luck with this--I wish I was more of a help!

mzgarrick

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Re: Late Extract Additions
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2004, 04:13:00 PM »
Brad,

I will definitely use this feature if you include it in an upcoming release!  I do late extract editions mainly for getting better hop extraction, but also for lighter colored brews (especially Belgian tripels & strong ales).  Also, a lot of brewers who use honey typically add it during the final 5 minutes of the boil (so another good reason for your "late addition" checkbox).

In the mean time, I create my base "publishable" recipe that includes all of the malts, etc... and then copy/paste it into a separate folder in order to remove the extracts that I add late so I can get an approximation on my IBUs.

 

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