Batch Sparge Settings

Hey all,

I'm new to all-grain brewing and am thinking about doing an all-grain 5-gallon batch by batch sparging.

When I change the "Mash" to "Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge" it tells me I should do a 3 step batch sparge of "0.14 gallons, 2.26 gallons and 2.26 gallons". Can someone please explain why I would need to do a batch sparge of only 0.14 gallons as the first step?

Thanks!

You don't need to do the 0.14 gal sparge addition, but the stock profile is set up to start the sparge BEFORE draining the mash tun.  You can correct this by opening up the mash profile and clicking in the sparge options section to 'drain mash tun before sparging'.  This will then tell the software that you will be draining the first runnings out before starting your sparge.

The profiles which came with BeerSmith are really templates for you to change and modify to fit how you want to brew.  Since they were set up for someone else's process, don't always consider them the right or proper way to do things.

Oginme said:

You don't need to do the 0.14 gal sparge addition, but the stock profile is set up to start the sparge BEFORE draining the mash tun.  You can correct this by opening up the mash profile and clicking in the sparge options section to 'drain mash tun before sparging'.  This will then tell the software that you will be draining the first runnings out before starting your sparge.

Click to expand...

This is the more typical batch sparge technique, correct?  (Ignorant fly sparger asking here)

jtoots said:

Oginme said:

You don't need to do the 0.14 gal sparge addition, but the stock profile is set up to start the sparge BEFORE draining the mash tun.  You can correct this by opening up the mash profile and clicking in the sparge options section to 'drain mash tun before sparging'.  This will then tell the software that you will be draining the first runnings out before starting your sparge.

Click to expand...

This is the more typical batch sparge technique, correct?  (Ignorant fly sparger asking here)

Click to expand...

Only applies to a batch sparge set up.  That is why it is found in the mash profile in the 'batch sparge' section.  Fly sparging assumes that you start a steady drain to match the rate of sparge water entering the mash tun.

Denny Conn is the batch sparge guru. He explains it at:  http://dennybrew.com/

Well here's the million dollar question: which is more efficient, batch or fly sparging?

I am also a fly sparger but have read may posts about batch sparging.  I know that batch sparging would certainly take about an hour or more off my brew day.

I'll look into Denny Conn.  Thanks durrettd!

The answer as to which is more efficient is... it depends.  Done properly, a fly sparge will be more efficient than a batch sparge.  You are right, however, that it is a matter of time.  For the couple of points in efficiency, is it worth the time effort involved?  That's a matter of personal choice and priorities.  I've done a fly sparge twice, early on in my brewing and quickly decided that it was so much easier to drain, fill, stir and wait 15 to 20 minutes, then drain again.  Since I use a bag inside of my mash tun, I don't need to worry about stuck sparges so the draining becomes much faster.

That's interesting. So, you line your mash tun with a bag and that helps avoid a stuck sparge?  That said, I'm now wondering if the bag also enables you to mill a finer grist???  A bag is something I have never considered, but make good sense.

Oginme said:

The answer as to which is more efficient is... it depends.  Done properly, a fly sparge will be more efficient than a batch sparge.  You are right, however, that it is a matter of time.  For the couple of points in efficiency, is it worth the time effort involved?  That's a matter of personal choice and priorities.  I've done a fly sparge twice, early on in my brewing and quickly decided that it was so much easier to drain, fill, stir and wait 15 to 20 minutes, then drain again.  Since I use a bag inside of my mash tun, I don't need to worry about stuck sparges so the draining becomes much faster.

Click to expand...

Thanks for answering my original question!

This conversation has brought up two more questions please.

Does the below look correct in attempting a 2 step sparge?
- Mash in
- Vorlauf/drain all of the wort into my boil kettle
- Add 2.26 gallons of sparge water that was heated up in a separate kettle to the mash tun
- Stir like crazy
- Vorlauf/drain all of the wort into my boil kettle
- Add the other 2.26 gallons of sparge water
- Stir like crazy
- Vorlauf/drain all of the wort into my boil kettle
- Boil

You and John Palmer seem to think that a 1 step sparge is all that is needed. So could I instead add both 2.26 gallons of sparge water (4.52 gallons) and sparge in just one step? Actually, I probably don't have enough room since the cooler is only 5 gallons (grains + 4.52 gallons of water might be too much).

Thanks a lot!

kmind said:

Thanks for answering my original question!

This conversation has brought up two more questions please.

Does the below look correct in attempting a 2 step sparge?
- Mash in
- Vorlauf/drain all of the wort into my boil kettle
- Add 2.26 gallons of sparge water that was heated up in a separate kettle to the mash tun
- Stir like crazy
- Vorlauf/drain all of the wort into my boil kettle
- Add the other 2.26 gallons of sparge water
- Stir like crazy
- Vorlauf/drain all of the wort into my boil kettle
- Boil

You and John Palmer seem to think that a 1 step sparge is all that is needed. So could I instead add both 2.26 gallons of sparge water (4.52 gallons) and sparge in just one step? Actually, I probably don't have enough room since the cooler is only 5 gallons (grains + 4.52 gallons of water might be too much).

Thanks a lot!

Click to expand...

That is reasonable for a two-step sparge. depending upon your mash tun volume, you might be able to get it down to a single stage.  What is the volume of your mash tun and pre-boil volume you need to collect?  From this you can determine the steps needed.

In my experience, Denny Conn's batch sparge method seemed to get me the most consistent efficiency (note that it may not be the best, but I'm not trying to get high efficiency; I'm trying to get a consistent, repeatable process).  His work comes to the conclusion that obtaining approximately equal runnings from both your initial infusion and from your sparge will get you the best efficiency from batch sparging. 

So, I used an average recipe (in terms of grain wt) and looked at the water demand.  I took the pre-boil volume (= post mash collected volume), subtracted the volume for grain absorption from that and then divided the number by two (half for mash and half for sparge).  Now I took the number and added back in the volume for grain absorption and the volume of dead space in my mash tun.  This number is now the volume I needed to mash with. 

I made a new mash profile (single infusion) and set the infusion volume to this number.  BeerSmith calculated the rest as my sparge volume.  Save and close the mash profile.  Open or start a new recipe and use that mash profile.  Check to make sure that the total volume (dead space + grain + infusion water) does not exceed your mash tun volume.  On the mash tun tab, there is a calculation for volume with a dot beside it.  This dot will turn red if you exceed the volume of the mash tun.  Since this profile is made around an average recipe, I do need to modify it within certain high gravity recipes to make sure it fits properly, but it suffices for the majority of what I brew up to 1.090 +/- a bit.

From my experience when you add your sparge water and stir like crazy (which is good), you should also let it stand for at least 15 to 20 minutes to equalize the concentration of sugars inside the grain particles and in the water to get best extraction.

Really appreciate that detailed post!

The volume of my mash tun is 5 gallons.
Since I have yet to do any practice runs, Beersmith says my predicted pre-boil volume should be 6.53 gallons.

What exactly is "dead space"? The liquid under the false bottom? If so, then it's probably about 0.25 gallons (I'd have to verify later).

The following calculation is using a 5 gallon cooler for an 11.20lb recipe.

pre-boil volume = 6.53 gallons
grain absorption = 1.34 gallons

6.53 - 1.34 = 5.19 gallons

5.19/2 = 2.6 gallons

2.6 + 1.34(grain absorption) = 3.94

3.94 + 0.25(dead space) = 4.19 gallons

So are you saying I should mash with 4.19 gallons of water (1.59 qt/lb ratio) and do a one-step sparge with 2.6 gallons of water for this specific recipe?

Beersmith says for this recipe my mash tun volume is 5.07 gallons which gives me a red dot indicating my tun is too small unfortunately.

Appreciate all of the help/patience. Just trying to understand all of this.

You have the math down OK.  Now you will need to adjust your water to make your first infusion volume fit to your mash tun.  Since you are over volume by about 0.07 gal, and you want some room so that you can stir the grains in comfortably, I would recommend moving at least 0.25 gal from your mash into your sparge volume. 

The mash tun dead space is the volume which you cannot drain out of your mash tun at all.  If you measure out a gallon of water, put it into your mash tun and measure how much of that water you can drain out, the difference would be your mash tun dead space. 

This may still push the limits of your mash tun with your batch sparge, in which case you can choose to split it up into two sparge steps.  This is where efficiency comes into play.  If you can up your mash efficiency to use a bit less grain, you can make it fit pretty easily.  My mash tun is also a 5-gal cooler and I can comfortably fit enough water between infusion and sparge to get a 20 liter batch (5.3 gal) with a 60-minute boil.  If I do a 90-minute boil, I end up with a small sparge step at the end to get enough volume through.

Awesome reply!

Hopefully last question.

Going back to BeerSmith's default "Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge" it says to mash in with 14 quarts of water and then sparge with 2.31 gallons and another sparge at 2.31 gallons. How does it come up with the 2.31 gallons of sparge water for each step? I was looking at an old thread that said you subtract the first runnings (14 quarts or 3.5 gallons) minus grain absorption (1.34) to get the amount of sparge water for each step but that equals 2.16.

Thanks as always!

It probably does this because the mash profile has 'use equal batch sizes' checked and active.  Also, while you are at it in disabling this, you can set the sparge to fill 100% of volume (or 95% if you want some room to stir).  I think default is 90% but you can set it for higher if you want.  Just make sure that you leave some room for stirring in the mash water (or add most of the sparge water, stir like crazy and then top off the rest.)

Oginme said:

It probably does this because the mash profile has 'use equal batch sizes' checked and active.  Also, while you are at it in disabling this, you can set the sparge to fill 100% of volume (or 95% if you want some room to stir).  I think default is 90% but you can set it for higher if you want.  Just make sure that you leave some room for stirring in the mash water (or add most of the sparge water, stir like crazy and then top off the rest.)

Click to expand...

Thanks, Ogineme!

Any advantages of equal sparge sizes? Last question, I promise

I have not tried equal sparge batches nor have I read anything that would leave me to believe that there would be an advantage to doing so. 

Please don't hold back any questions!  Remember also that there are hundreds of ways to make wort, and they all work just fine.  Figure out the methods which work for you and you are comfortable with.  The most important part is having a process which you can reliably repeat and produce consistent results.

I have a question. One recipe says to "batch sparge with 2 steps ( drain mash tun, 9.49 gal ) of 168.0 F water" Isn't it stating that you drain the tun then add in the 9.49 gallons and then drain again? There is no explanations for some or most of the fields in this program and it would be really nice if there was.  I would also assume if it was set to equal batch sizes that you would add the first amount of water, drain the tun, add second amount of water and then drain again. Again more explanation of the meaning would be greatly helpful for us beginners.

The software does assume a certain amount of familiarity with your process.  In most cases, the user will change the profiles to match how they want their process to work.  Your understanding of the directions for each scenario is correct.

When I try and change the settings so that it will Batch sparge it wont batch sparge and always set it as fly sparging.

I dont fly sparge and I only batch sparge. Any advice?