High gravity last runnings

It seems my norm is final fly sparge runnings in the 1.020s up to 1.030, and I'm trying to work out how to make the sugar collection for the wort more effective.

The mash tun is a 55 litre (14.5 US gal) rectangular cooler, though with the hinge placement the max fluid capacity is closer to 13.5 gallons. The manifold is a homemade copper 4 bar design as per John Palmer's book. There is a similar design 4 bar homemade sparge arm.

The last batch was an ESB with a total 8.90 kg grain (19.6 lbs), with 26 litres (6.8 gal) mash water, plus 13 litres (3.4 gal) for mash out, then a fly sparge of 21 litres (5.5 gals).

The last runnings from a slow stream were 1.022 and pH 5.9, and then collected the single drips which measured 1 cup at 1.028 (also pH 5.9).

Is there some way I can collect more of the sugars without increasing the boil volume?

Cheers
Phil

Did you hit your pre-boil gravity?  If you were over boil gravity and your final runnings were high, you could bump up your efficiency a notch or two, buy less grain, and come out where you want to be.  Disclaimer:  I'm no expert here, just now after a handful of AG batches starting to make these tweaks myself... I came out of the AG gates with the same results and I think this bump in efficiency has brought me closer to hitting the nail on the head.

Hi toots 

Regrettably, I did not hit the pre-boil gravity. Estimated: 1.045, Actual 1.042.

Looks as though I need to keep investigating. It's doing my head in, this one. And this is the third one in a row that I know of ('cos that's when I started measuring the final runnings SG).

Thanks mate.

Don't worry about this one at all!!!

So you're a few points low on your pre-boil... I'll reverse my previous suggestion, it looks like you need to bump your efficiency down a notch or two. 

Again, keeping in mind that I'm no AG expert, I'm not sure that the gravity of your final runnings are all that critical.  The biggest thing I've learned about that data point is that you don't want to go too low, because at that point (1.1ish) you're extracting a lot of tannins. 

I think you're more concerned with hitting that pre-boil gravity.  If you're working with a bit more grain, you ought to get there.

This is where different equipment profiles,  more advanced equipment; can make achieving difficult efficiencies more attainable.  As well as providing countless brewing options such as multiple temperature step mashing, decoctions and double decoctions, RIMS,  HERMS etc.

  I believe you have hit the limitations of the insulated mash tun. Having to add water (infusions) to bump up the temperature for mash out. To possibly get  higher extraction of sugars, one consideration is switch to a stainless kettle mash tun with heat to increase temps. This keeps water additions to a minimum in the mash and allows for more sparge water. Gives you more room to play with the water and where it gets used. I hear  a lot of brewers( myself included) can't get down to the minimum gravity last runnings with high gravity beer anyway. Some  use methods like running mash strike water of batch #2( in multiple consecutive batches ) through the grainbed of batch #1, after last runnings are done, to remove residual sugars and be able to re- use them, just not in the original batch.
I'm not saying it's better to use more sparge water than water in the mash, just gives you more flexibility  and room to experiment.
I use a 10 gallon kettle with 12" bazooka screen and propane heat for mash.

G'day twhitaker

I'm not very happy with your answer. It may be logical and absolutely 100% correct, but it means I will have to spend money on improving my mash equipment!  ;D

Yet to be honest, I was sort of expecting a reality check; thanks mate. I also really like that pic of your setup and gives me a good lead on what to do.

Take care and your help is really appreciated.
Phil

Thanks for the good words. I know the idea of spending more cash is never welcome. I always look for ways to upgrade my system.
Keep an eye out for stuff used and on sale.  My beer stand is an old discarded workout bench frame. Cheap propane burners welded on.. extension lift rack is old bedframe cut and welded (bolts would work too).
I didn't grind and paint it as I wasnt sure if it would be permanent. Good thing as once you brew it gets covered in malt spills and cooks hard black.
My " kettles", 2 of them were s.s. pots purchased used from a pharma plant. Drilled holes, using an $8 step drill and a rat tail file, to add ball valves, bazooka screen; and thermometers. Small brew pump is actually a $60 recirc pump for solar heat systems, with silicon hoses.
Bazooka screen lets you heat and stir the bottom of mash yet still works great for the sparge and lauter. Way cheaper than false bottoms.
For sparging, I simply put the mash paddle handle across the top of mash tun and open the HLT valve part way.
I like to do things myself, and keep things simple. This forum has helped me immensely, good to give back,CHEERS!