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mash Ph

all grain

Grandmaster Brewer
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
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Location
mn
Rahr Pale Ale (US)  10.0 lb  77 %  Mash  37  3  °L 
Crystal 60L (CA)  1.0 lb  7 %  Mash  34  60  °L 
White Wheat (US)  1.0 lb  7 %  Mash  40  2  °L 
Flaked Oats  0.7 lb  5 %  Mash  33  2  °L 
De-Husked Caraf III (DE)  0.15 lb  1 %  Mash  32  470  °L  ( just for some color)
mash thickness 1.5 Qt/gal  151 temp 70 min.
hops are nugget leaf 1 oz@ 50,10,0
1st water profile is 9 gal Ro with 6 grams gypsum, 4.5 grams CI, 1.5 grams NA added to the total 9 gal(4.5 mash 4.5 sprauge) 
2nd water was my city water witch is hard and full of who knows what and testing it dose little good because it changes weekly and even the color of it changes. this is why I'm trying to go with Ro.
  This is the recipe I used and did it 2 times using different waters, but had low ph mash reading both times in the mash.
I used Ph strips at room temp. did a test using these strips with different waters and they passed so I'm assuming the test strips are fairly accurate.
According to the strips the Ph was below 5 but not below 4.6 throughout the entire mash. I was trying to get 5.3 or so.
after 20 mim with low Ph I decided to throw in 4 grams of baking soda to try to raise the Ph but this had 0 effect witch I found odd with the Ro water test batch. (added soda to 1/2 gal of wort and mixed in mash by stirring)
my ending hydrometer readings after the boil with 6 gal in the kettle with the Ro test was 1.059 and with the city water it was 1.057. witch leads me to believe the mash Ph is not harming my mash too much but I'm worried about taste and yeast health.
  Now here is the kicker, back about 20 batches I was having high Ph problems witch lead me to use gypsum and Ci in my mashes and I had made lots of beer with good mash Ph with these additions. now I'm having low Ph.
  I know a may be over reacting here but the quest for better beer is one I may never finish but will also never give up on.
any advise is welcome.
P.s I know that Ph meters are better but the budget says otherwise.     
 
You don't mention that you are using a program to help you determine what your mash pH will be, so I assume you are not.  That would be my recommendation - download Brun' Water.  Using that tool I never have an issue.
 
Rahr 2 row  is somewhat more acidic as a base malt.  Are you applying the .3 correction factor for strips?
 
all grain said:
Rahr Pale Ale (US)  10.0 lb  77 %  Mash  37  3  °L 
Crystal 60L (CA)  1.0 lb  7 %  Mash  34  60  °L 
White Wheat (US)  1.0 lb  7 %  Mash  40  2  °L 
Flaked Oats  0.7 lb  5 %  Mash  33  2  °L 
De-Husked Caraf III (DE)  0.15 lb  1 %  Mash  32  470  °L  ( just for some color)
mash thickness 1.5 Qt/gal  151 temp 70 min.
hops are nugget leaf 1 oz@ 50,10,0
1st water profile is 9 gal Ro with 6 grams gypsum, 4.5 grams CI, 1.5 grams NA added to the total 9 gal(4.5 mash 4.5 sprauge) 
2nd water was my city water witch is hard and full of who knows what and testing it dose little good because it changes weekly and even the color of it changes. this is why I'm trying to go with Ro.
  This is the recipe I used and did it 2 times using different waters, but had low ph mash reading both times in the mash.
I used Ph strips at room temp. did a test using these strips with different waters and they passed so I'm assuming the test strips are fairly accurate.
According to the strips the Ph was below 5 but not below 4.6 throughout the entire mash. I was trying to get 5.3 or so.
after 20 mim with low Ph I decided to throw in 4 grams of baking soda to try to raise the Ph but this had 0 effect witch I found odd with the Ro water test batch. (added soda to 1/2 gal of wort and mixed in mash by stirring)
my ending hydrometer readings after the boil with 6 gal in the kettle with the Ro test was 1.059 and with the city water it was 1.057. witch leads me to believe the mash Ph is not harming my mash too much but I'm worried about taste and yeast health.
  Now here is the kicker, back about 20 batches I was having high Ph problems witch lead me to use gypsum and Ci in my mashes and I had made lots of beer with good mash Ph with these additions. now I'm having low Ph.
  I know a may be over reacting here but the quest for better beer is one I may never finish but will also never give up on.
any advise is welcome.
P.s I know that Ph meters are better but the budget says otherwise.   
(correction ,the gypsum was 4.5 gr and Cl was 6 gr)
 
KernelCrush said:
Rahr 2 row  is somewhat more acidic as a base malt.  Are you applying the .3 correction factor for strips?
no I'm not but I was wondering if the base malt may be the problem. it has been my go to lately.
 
yso191 said:
You don't mention that you are using a program to help you determine what your mash pH will be, so I assume you are not.  That would be my recommendation - download Brun' Water.  Using that tool I never have an issue.
I run my recipes though brewers friend advanced water chemistry calculator and also use there recipe builder along with some others.
not sure if there is a huge difference in these different programs but have not been told that one or the other are bad. something to look into I guess.
 
[/quote]
I run my recipes though brewers friend advanced water chemistry calculator and also use there recipe builder along with some others.
not sure if there is a huge difference in these different programs but have not been told that one or the other are bad. something to look into I guess.
[/quote]

I use BF also, but am looking at BS here again.  Last time I checked, been a few months, there was no availability in BS to use slaked lime.  Funny thing here, using another software to build water when we should be able to fully use BS! 
 
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