Author Topic: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?  (Read 10873 times)

Offline Scott Ickes

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2014, 02:15:13 PM »
Hey all!  First time posting here, just getting my feet wet with BeerSmith 2 and loving it so far.  I have humble opinion that favors racking to secondary:

Any time you transfer from one vessel to another, some amount of yeast is going to come with it.  Racking to secondary simply allows this yeast to settle against a new bottom, which will reduce the amount of yeast going into your keg or bottles.

As for "when", I've been doing this once I see the air lock stop moving.  I give the top of the bucket a small nudge downward until the cap in the air lock settles to the bottom of the lock.  If it never comes back up (no more pressure is being generated by yeast creating CO2), then I'll rack.  Sometimes this happens as quickly as a week, which I see most think is too soon, but if it's not fermenting any more is there any reason to leave it in place?



Looking forward to connecting with you all over this forum in the batches to come!

Just because there isn't any airlock activity, doesn't mean that the yeast aren't doing anything.  They could be settling out.  They could be cleaning up some off chemicals that don't create CO2, which means they are cleaning up after themselves.

I've done both ways, and I've never had a problem with too much yeast going from the primary into the bottles.  When the yeast flocculate out in the primary, you might pick up a little extra into your bottling bucket, but it's a small amount that gets evenly distributed and only adds a minute amount to each bottle. 
Kegs:
 Red IPA
 ESB
 Saison Solera
 Dubel (Aged in Malbec Wine Barrel
Aging:
 80 Shilling (In bourbon barrel)
Bottled
 Peppermint Patty Stout
 Wee Heavy

Scott Ickes
https://creativebrewing.wordpress.com

Offline tripwood

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2014, 02:53:07 PM »
I always went from plastic bucket primary to carboy secondary. Does it save that much time to go straight to carboy? If I'm getting this right, this is more a matter of personal preference?

Do you all dry-hop in primary or secondary usually?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2014, 04:48:05 PM »
I always went from plastic bucket primary to carboy secondary. Does it save that much time to go straight to carboy? If I'm getting this right, this is more a matter of personal preference?

Do you all dry-hop in primary or secondary usually?

it's a question of if you NEED to go to secondary at all. I start and finish in the bucket. 1-6 weeks (until it's done basically) then package.

If I'm dry hopping I do so in the serving keg. If I didn't have kegs I would dry hop in the primary although there is some recent studies that seem to say that dry hopping in presence of yeast can give different results than doing so away from the yeast so that's something for each brewer to decide.
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Offline RiverBrewer

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2014, 07:55:17 PM »
it's a question of if you NEED to go to secondary at all. I start and finish in the bucket. 1-6 weeks (until it's done basically) then package.

I have to agree, why risk oxygenation and or infection of the beer, when using pails or carboys.
For a competition bound IPA, I will use a CO2 purged secondary for dry hopping is my only exception. But overall, with a good pitch of clean, well attenuating, and excellent flocculating yeast eg. 001 & 1056, you are gaining nothing by going to secondary. Just another peanut gallery opinion!
Enjoy good beer daily.....Hell is a dry town!

Offline Scott Ickes

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2014, 09:29:28 PM »
I'm to the point in my brewing where I only use a secondary when I have to.  My choice is to keep it in the same fermenter from yeast pitch until I rack it to my bottling bucket. 

Exceptions for me are:
   When racking onto something that requires a seconary (oak chips, fruit, etc.)
   When I run out of space in my buckets or larger carboys (I hate blow off tubes, because they waste beer).  In these cases, I'll rack
       a beer to a 5.5 gallon carboy to free up an 8 gallon bucket for a new brew.
   Wine or beer that requires long term aging.  I'm planning an Oud Bruin that will require a year or more of aging.  I'll rack it to a 5.5
       gallon carboy to add fruits.  Then I'll rack it again to a 5.5 gallon carboy with oak chips and Pinot Noir to get happy for about a year.
Kegs:
 Red IPA
 ESB
 Saison Solera
 Dubel (Aged in Malbec Wine Barrel
Aging:
 80 Shilling (In bourbon barrel)
Bottled
 Peppermint Patty Stout
 Wee Heavy

Scott Ickes
https://creativebrewing.wordpress.com

Offline acacko

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 10:01:17 AM »
I almost always give my ales a month in the primary, and a month in a secondary for nothing more than clarity.
Time & gravity are great for a crystal clear brew

Offline Freak

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 12:44:50 AM »
OK.... Here I go again... Get ready for the "Spite-O-Thon"!

I typically go from primary to keg in one week. If I get lazy and don't get it kegged on the first weekend after brew day I do it the next weekend. It just doesn't matter, that much, where it does what, and when. I am sure that there is some kind of brewing law that prohibits this and could get ya 15-20 behind bars but, that yeast is gonna do it's job no matter where it is as long as the temps. are in range. So what if something settles out. What happens in bottle conditioning. Stuff is gonna settle. In a keg you pull off any sediment on the first pull. Long as you don't move the keg it's fine. If you must move a keg (and I frequently do) just transfer to another one. OK. Smite away!!!
Brewing massive amounts of freakin' good beer since 1991. We had to learn the hard way. No homebrew stores or beer nerds (like me) to talk to back then. Just pure passion and determination. Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Homebrew! -23 Karma! Yee Ha!! It went up! Smite me if you must but, trust me.

Offline ihikeut

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2014, 08:18:06 AM »
Freak glad to see you posting again.  I think most of the smites you received came from post on sanitation, and a little name calling. I did not realize brewers were still open fermenting beer until you and brewfun pointed it out. But I feel it's for very experience brewers. I personally did not smite you and think you will loose a few smites.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 06:56:03 PM by ihikeut »

Offline Scott Ickes

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2014, 09:09:55 AM »
OK.... Here I go again... Get ready for the "Spite-O-Thon"!

I typically go from primary to keg in one week. If I get lazy and don't get it kegged on the first weekend after brew day I do it the next weekend. It just doesn't matter, that much, where it does what, and when. I am sure that there is some kind of brewing law that prohibits this and could get ya 15-20 behind bars but, that yeast is gonna do it's job no matter where it is as long as the temps. are in range. So what if something settles out. What happens in bottle conditioning. Stuff is gonna settle. In a keg you pull off any sediment on the first pull. Long as you don't move the keg it's fine. If you must move a keg (and I frequently do) just transfer to another one. OK. Smite away!!!

This isn't bad advice Freak.  It's a matter of personal preference.  The only thing is termperature.  A lot of time, once it's in the keg, it goes to lower temperature storage.  This doesn't give the yeast a chance for a diacytel rest at 70+F.  You'll have a different taste profile compared to with or without this rest at a higher temperature.  You could also temperature control your keg and get a diacytel rest too. 

So, it's personal preference.
Kegs:
 Red IPA
 ESB
 Saison Solera
 Dubel (Aged in Malbec Wine Barrel
Aging:
 80 Shilling (In bourbon barrel)
Bottled
 Peppermint Patty Stout
 Wee Heavy

Scott Ickes
https://creativebrewing.wordpress.com

Offline twhitaker

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Re: When to rack from 1st to 2nd?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2014, 06:49:27 PM »
I agree with JTOOTS.   I find a definite advantage of racking beer to a secondary at about S.G.1020, Around 12 days, and bubbler activity slowed to about 45 seconds . If you angle your hose right in the bottom of the carboy,  there is a swirl motion created.  This is a type of whirpooling, same as the last few minutes of the boil with Irish Moss.  This whirpool action and clean glass bottom settles the beer out in a matter of days. It begins immediately, with sediment accumulating within an hour. I really think beer clears much faster by doing this. I have left beer in the primary many moons ago and found it takes about a week longer (sometimes two) to settle, clear and finish fermenting. The beer is still able to  finish off fermenting and leaves a nice little yeast film on the bottom of the secondary. I am able to brew again because the primary is freed up, and when the SG drops to 4 points above terminal, I bottle 6- 500 ml bottles and fill a 19 liter ball lock s.s. Corny keg. It can carbonate under keg pressure 28 psi and finish fermenting at the same time, about 5 five days; and the captured bottle ferment will carbonate the bottles.( in about 14 days at room temperature)  I am now drinking a reasonably clear pilsner that was brewed 18 days ago, March 28. In a week it will be completely clear and be officially "Ready"
Also like to dry hop in carboy secondary, and let it clear/settle out.  takes about a week longer.
 I am a newbie on this board but have my original C.A.B.A. (Canadian Amateur Brewing Association) membership from 1986 and have brewed hundreds of 6 gallon batches, one 24 us gal batch,and two 12 gallon batches.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 08:05:44 AM by twhitaker »
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