Author Topic: what will this taste like  (Read 6452 times)

Offline all grain

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 207
  • variables,variables, so many variables
what will this taste like
« on: March 13, 2014, 08:12:01 AM »
just want to hear what this beer may taste like, its my first attempt at a darker style, all most porter, beer. its 6 days into fermentation and I'm starting to 2nd guess my choices of malt and the quantities.
      10# 2row
1#Munich
1#pale chocolate
1# caraform
1oz cascade 60
1oz cascade 30
S.G. 1.074
us 04 yeast
mash at 153
ferment at 64
5 gal  in fermenter at 162-166
 I have checked the grav today and it was @ 1.022 and still falling but the smell of it seamed a little like wine, now I know its not done yet but the smell is bothering me.
 when I tasted my sample it also tasted just like some one put a shot of red wine in a 16 oz glass of flat beer. is this normal for big dark beers at day 6 into fermentation?
brewing is an art form not just a science ,dude where's my beer!

Offline morticaixavier

  • Jonathan Fuller
  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 08:33:50 AM »
The grain bill looks fine.

I would have used more munich but I'm a big fan of munich. and I've never seen the need for carafoam but there is nothing wrong with the recipe.

on the wine note, what exactly do you mean? grapey? like concord grape jelly? or tannic like a big young caberenet?

assuming your mash pH was in line the chocolate might still give you some tannic notes. Munich does have a dark fruit component to it's flavor although to me it's more bready/toasty

grape can be an ester from certain yeast strains as well.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"

- A. Einstein

Offline all grain

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 207
  • variables,variables, so many variables
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 08:52:26 AM »
slightly  tannic like a big young caberenet. but not to the point of any puckering. I'm in new waters here with this style so I may just have to be patient, but I was planning to do one more like this tomorrow. my biggest worry is that I have some bugs and if that is the case I do not want to brew until I find out for sure. never had to dump any yet and sure don't want to start by infecting two batches.   
brewing is an art form not just a science ,dude where's my beer!

Offline morticaixavier

  • Jonathan Fuller
  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 09:54:45 AM »
roasted malts, even chocolate malts will give a slight tannic note. It's not bad and will meld and mellow just as it does in red wine. It's unlikely you would notice infection at this early stage. the yeast should still be thoroughly out competing anything else in there.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"

- A. Einstein

Offline tom_hampton

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
    • Tom's Miata Racing Blog
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2014, 09:14:04 AM »
At this stage, my only concern would be for your mash pH...based on your description of perceiving tannins.   I would also be concerned with boil pH and its impact on hop flavors, but when mash pH is right....boil pH takes care of itself.  Its probably fine, but its not that hard to check...at least, it will give you knowledge and peace of mind to know your pH is not causing a problem. 

I'm big into the science of brewing, so I would definitely use one of the mash pH calculators to see where my mash pH is landing (more of less).    EZ Water 3.0, Bru'n Water, or http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/ are all viable options.  I use the brewer's friend calculator, but it is certainly the most complicated (and most accurate) of the choices.   I used EZ Water for many years, before moving to Kai's calculator on brewer's friend. 

You would need a water report for your local water municipality. 

If it turns out that your pH is too high (5.8+ at room temp), then you can add a few mL of either phosphoric or lactic acid to control the pH.  I use lactic, but phosphoric seems to be perceived by most people as enhancing maltiness and is preferred by many people.  All of the above calculators have an option to add either acid to the mash and predict the resulting pH. 
R.I.P.:Belgian Blonde
On Tap: Apfelwein, Kolsch(v2), Pumpkin Ale, Belgian Specialty 
Aging/Storing: Coffee Porter, Chocolate Porter, Flanders Red, English Barlywine
Fermenting: Maggie's Altbier
Next Up: PtE(1.1), Belgian Dubbel?

Working thru all BCS recipes

Offline all grain

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 207
  • variables,variables, so many variables
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2014, 11:35:40 AM »
been using Kai's calculator on brewer's friend for 9 mo now and I use RO for base water.
 To the before mentioned recipe I added to total water witch if I remember right was 6 gal mash and spauge + 1 gal reg RO for a quick rinse at the end of mash out.  ,1 tps gypsum 1 tps. ci, .25 tsp e salts, .25 tsp b soda . I'm not sure on the exacts since I did not print this one out but it predicted 5.21 PH in mash. I got all green stars and a balanced water profile. ran mash out till it ran 1.025 on the second running's. witch filled my boil pot so I said thats good. I think my mash eff was >75% because I had more 1.071 wert then I expected . all in all with the 04 yeast and high grav i'm thinking it may just need to age longer then most of my beers.  this is the darkest beer I have made so far.
"I chase patience like a dog chases his tale". 
brewing is an art form not just a science ,dude where's my beer!

Offline tom_hampton

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
    • Tom's Miata Racing Blog
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 11:50:38 AM »
Then its fine.  Its just the normal young dark beer flavor nothing more.   

I use Kai's calculator, and I do measure my pH multiple times during the mash, sparge, and boil.  Kai's calculator has been within 0.1 pH on every brew I've used it for across a wide range of styles and water chemistries.  It's really quite impressive.  EZ Water and Bru'n water errors are more like 0.2-0.3 on average, and a few were twice that before I switched. 

If you were at 5.21 mash pH, and manage your water as you say...there is no way that your pH is an issue at any process stage (mash, sparge, or boil). 




R.I.P.:Belgian Blonde
On Tap: Apfelwein, Kolsch(v2), Pumpkin Ale, Belgian Specialty 
Aging/Storing: Coffee Porter, Chocolate Porter, Flanders Red, English Barlywine
Fermenting: Maggie's Altbier
Next Up: PtE(1.1), Belgian Dubbel?

Working thru all BCS recipes

Offline all grain

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 207
  • variables,variables, so many variables
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 03:36:27 PM »
tom I really appreciate your attentiveness and like I stated i'm casing my tale a little to much.. now i'm just starting a smash brew so i'll talk to ya all latter. thanks again.
brewing is an art form not just a science ,dude where's my beer!

Offline Freak

  • Freak Brothers Homebrew
  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 155
  • Brutally Freaking Honest
    • Freak Brothers Homebrew
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 11:01:39 PM »
Posting a recipe and asking how it will taste is impossible to answer. I can give my grandma, my wife and my daughter the same pile of ingredients to a meal and get three different meals. One may be incredible. The other may be just OK. The other may suck balls. Your recipe tells me absolutely nothing about the quality of the beer. It may be incredible. It may be OK. It might suck balls. It's just beer. The quality of the finished product depends on the process. So, a bunch of beer snobs are here trying to give you their input on a beer that they have no idea how it was produced. They don't know how it will taste. They want you to think they know more than you. They don't. The fact that they would take a stab at this tells me they don't have a clue about beer and, they are showing off. Just drink it. Then tell us how it tastes. You (and your friends) will know if it's good. Compare it to BJCP style guidelines and forget what these fools tell you about tannins and things that only occur in the mash rather what the recipe is capable of producing. Pay more attention to technique than the recipe. You just need to get your technique down and learn your equipment and you will be fine. Recipes do not mater one bit. Anyone can blather on about their opinion of a beer or a beer recipe. Only great brewers can produce a great beer. Great brewers can kick back and listen to how much people love their beer. They don't worry about others opinions of their recipe formulation and, just when a recipe looks like it is out of balance (or whack) they may have just come up with the perfect combination of water, malt, hops and yeast. Ignore the fake experts. They know nothing. Just perfect your craft. As for you beer snobs, leave the home brewer alone. One day you will be in his pub begging for that opportunity to be where he is.
Brewing massive amounts of freakin' good beer since 1991. We had to learn the hard way. No homebrew stores or beer nerds (like me) to talk to back then. Just pure passion and determination. Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Homebrew! -23 Karma! Yee Ha!! It went up! Smite me if you must but, trust me.

Offline morticaixavier

  • Jonathan Fuller
  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2014, 09:34:52 AM »
Posting a recipe and asking how it will taste is impossible to answer. I can give my grandma, my wife and my daughter the same pile of ingredients to a meal and get three different meals. One may be incredible. The other may be just OK. The other may suck balls. Your recipe tells me absolutely nothing about the quality of the beer. It may be incredible. It may be OK. It might suck balls. It's just beer. The quality of the finished product depends on the process. So, a bunch of beer snobs are here trying to give you their input on a beer that they have no idea how it was produced. They don't know how it will taste. They want you to think they know more than you. They don't. The fact that they would take a stab at this tells me they don't have a clue about beer and, they are showing off. Just drink it. Then tell us how it tastes. You (and your friends) will know if it's good. Compare it to BJCP style guidelines and forget what these fools tell you about tannins and things that only occur in the mash rather what the recipe is capable of producing. Pay more attention to technique than the recipe. You just need to get your technique down and learn your equipment and you will be fine. Recipes do not mater one bit. Anyone can blather on about their opinion of a beer or a beer recipe. Only great brewers can produce a great beer. Great brewers can kick back and listen to how much people love their beer. They don't worry about others opinions of their recipe formulation and, just when a recipe looks like it is out of balance (or whack) they may have just come up with the perfect combination of water, malt, hops and yeast. Ignore the fake experts. They know nothing. Just perfect your craft. As for you beer snobs, leave the home brewer alone. One day you will be in his pub begging for that opportunity to be where he is.

really? so you don't have any ability to imagine what a recipe will taste like before you make it? that's sad! I know what affect all those ingredients (except the carafoam) have on a finished beer because I've brewed with them all a lot! so, while I can't know what the OP's process will bring to the recipe I can have  pretty good idea of what that beer would taste like if I brewed it. This is the posted question.

it will have a malty, bread crust/toast character from the munich, although at those low levels it will be subtle. a lb of pale chocolate will add a touch of roast/coffee flavor and aroma. the cascade hops at 30 minutes will add a hint of pine and grapefruit, although later additions would be better.

Now, will it taste good? that depends on the brewer. it might taste like all those things AND suck balls or it might taste like all those things and be incredible but those flavor elements will be there and nothing the brewer does will make them not there. they maybe hidden, altered, muddled, highlighted, accentuated, or complimented but they will be there.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"

- A. Einstein

Offline jeba55

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 03:11:38 PM »
Your beer might be taste good but not sure about it.

Offline all grain

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 207
  • variables,variables, so many variables
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 05:52:21 PM »
this was my 1st porter and after cold crash I bottled it yesterday. it is tasting much better and I think after 30 days it will be a vary good beer.it is amazing how the flavors have changed. just gos to show that you never know the final taste.
brewing is an art form not just a science ,dude where's my beer!

Offline morticaixavier

  • Jonathan Fuller
  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 10:02:12 PM »
good to hear it's tasting good
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"

- A. Einstein

Offline Freak

  • Freak Brothers Homebrew
  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 155
  • Brutally Freaking Honest
    • Freak Brothers Homebrew
Re: what will this taste like
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2014, 04:53:49 PM »
Looks to me like it will taste like beer if your process was on target. Go get a book called "Designing Great Beers" and get a copy of the BJCP Guidelines. If you do a little research while designing your recipes you will do fine. Use Beersmith as well and keep it within the parameters that the program gives you. Learn to make great beer first, then refine your recipe formulations.
Brewing massive amounts of freakin' good beer since 1991. We had to learn the hard way. No homebrew stores or beer nerds (like me) to talk to back then. Just pure passion and determination. Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Homebrew! -23 Karma! Yee Ha!! It went up! Smite me if you must but, trust me.

 

modification