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Water treatment

A

Andrewpitch

Hi All,
I have two questions:
Firstly, it is well known that gypsum for example should be added to the mash for pH adjustment and that calcium is important for other reasons in brewing. So a teaspoonful into the mash tun takes care of all of this. However, we are very familiar with the different brewing waters around the world such as Burton-on-Trent. The success of Burton ales is attributed partly to the chemical composition of the local water supply. Now, as this water is used for the entire brew and not only the mash, in order to brew a Burton ale shouldn't I be "Burtonising" all of my brewing water and not just the mash?
Secondly, I have been experiencing a harsh, cloying bitterness in my pale ales which after a process of elimination can only put down to the high pH of my sparge water, 8.5. Not many people seem to acidify their sparge water to prevent the extraction of polyphenols but some do. Can anyone offer any opinions on this?
Thanks in advance. 
 
Download BrunWater ( https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ ). Read the instructions on the first sheet twice. For an even better understanding read the last sheet. Play with it a bit and you'll get your answers.
 
I acidify my sparge water. it's RO so it doesn't take much but I hit it will a few ml of 88% lactic acid just to be on the safe side. That way I can sparge with near boiling water with no fear of tannin extraction (It's tannin extraction rather than polyphenol by the way, the polyphenol is from chlorine or chloramin in the water which is dealt with using charcoal filtering and/or campden tablets.)

+1 to bru'n water.

On the question about burtonizing your water. It become much simpler to deal with mash chemistry if you only put in the mash what you need to get the right pH and allow for proper enzymatic action and add the rest of the 'flavor' salts into the kettle. In the mash you mainly need ~50 ppm calcium and the proper pH, everything else can go in the kettle.
 
I, too, acidify my sparge water to pH 5.8 at room temperature to ensure there will (should) be no solubilization of polyphenolic compounds during the sparge. Can't remember off-hand where I heard it, but apparently this is practiced more often than you may realize.

Also can't recall the source, but I did read somewhere that the "extraction of tannins" may also be referred to as "solubilizing polyphenols" which, understanding only a little about plant matter and non-hydrolizable tannins such as those found in malted barley, makes sense at least to me.

The barley has these polyphenolic compounds (tannins), and we want them to stay behind in the spent grains, so we reduce the opportunity to unbind them by controlling the pH thus inhibiting their ability to break their bonds and come more readily into suspension.

In my opinion, it is easier to just think about reducing the opportunity of extracting tannins by adjusting the sparge water to ensure it never goes above pH 5.8 during sparging.

As far as adjusting the whole batch; I do like Mort does - I adjust the mash one way, and the kettle gets the rest for flavor adjustments. I always acidify my sparge water (I use a 10% Phosphoric acid solution - and another +1 to Bru'n Water).
 
all I know is that my beer taste better since I have use treated(adjusted for P.H.) R.O. only, for the sparge . in the mash I use all the salts needed for a particular beer. I batch sparge only one time and ya I leave some beer behind but if I sparge a 2nd time the gravity is @ about 1.015 and I feel that its not worth it. imho. doing it this way my mash efficiency is at 75%+-. 
 
Thanks all for the helpful replies. I will add enough salts for the mash, acidify my sparge water, and add the balance of the salts to the kettle.  :) Oh and Bru'n Water is great!
 
Andrewpitch said:
Secondly, I have been experiencing a harsh, cloying bitterness in my pale ales which after a process of elimination can only put down to the high pH of my sparge water, 8.5. Not many people seem to acidify their sparge water to prevent the extraction of polyphenols but some do. Can anyone offer any opinions on this?
Thanks in advance.

You refer to using some quantity of gypsum, which is CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).  You do NOT refer to using ANY calcium chloride.  Sulfate is well documented to increase the harshness perception of hop bitterness---specifically in the absence of any Chloride. 

I'm not sure why you have concluded that your sparge water pH is to blame in this regard---its impact is not direct, nor very likely.  Your kettle pH would need to be above 5.8 in order to see an impact on hop bitterness like you describe.  If your mash pH is correct, its pretty unlikely that your runnings will exceed 5.8+...let alone your total kettle pH.  Your local water would need to have a pretty high residual alkalinity for that to occur.  Its possible (my own local water fits that profile), but most water in the USA doesn't have that high of an RA. 

Pure water pH is a meaningless number.  Its not even worth measuring.  Without a mineral profile it tells you NOTHING about the water or what its chemistry will be when it is mixed with grain.  Once it has been acidified, you know a little more.  Mostly the acid consumes the buffering capacity of the water and more or less ensures that the sparge pH can't rise very far.  But with RO sparge water, its not necessary---it doesn't hurt, but it isn't necessary.  Sparge pH won't rise above the dreaded 5.8...and therefore kettle pH can't possibly get above that number either. 

My own local water has high residual alkalinity.  I have a pH meter, and I use it on every brew.  I chart mash pH, sparge pH and kettle pH on every brew.  I brew styles that range from an SRM 3.0 to 30+.  I use all local water, 50/50 mix with RO, or all RO depending on the style and SRM of the beer.  So, I have a lot of experience with varying water chemistry and actual measured pH values. 

I have and do sometimes acidify my sparge water, but that is recipe dependant.  I don't do it unless I know that I need to (based on data from previous brews).  I do not want to add more acid than absolutely necessary to manage mash, sparge, and kettle pH.  The anion in both lactic (lactate) and phosphoric (phosphate) acid affect the flavor of the beer.  So, acids should be used sparingly to ensure they remain below the taste thresholds for each...unless that particular effect is specifically desired.  Usually less is more. 

My first suspicion would be your sulfate:chloride ratio is driving your hop perceptions.  As a general recommendation, its better to use equal parts CaCl and CaSO4 to adjust mash calcium content.  Then alter that ratio to manipulate the SO4:Cl ratio for flavor.  I never recommend chasing local water profiles. Just getting the pH right, and managing the SO4:Cl according to desired hop/malt perception is more than good enough for 90% of the beer styles.

 
I am a total water treater and acidifier. As far as treating just the mash, do you think they drive to Scotland to get water for the boil????
Tom is right on to tell you the ratio is important. You just need to realize that Burton water is a harder water, so you work with that and jockey the numbers for the Ca & So4 to maintain the ratio you want as you build from RO. You need to have your base water tested & your RO tested, too.

I normally treat total water to 5.3 pH, but you still have to check the mash pH a few times. I just made a Munich Helles with 92% pils and had to add more acid to the mash because the pH rose to 5.6. So what I am saying you still have to monitor your mash pH closely. One of the benefits of using the Tower of Power controller on my recirculating mash is that I don't have to worry about mash temp and it gives me ample time to work on the mash pH or some other chore. I have brewed with it for a year now.....very happy!
 
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