BeerSmith™ Home Brewing Forum

Brewing Topics => All Grain/Advanced => Topic started by: Pat on July 02, 2011, 01:49:04 AM

Title: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2011, 01:49:04 AM
What figures should new users start with in their equipment profile?

Note: chiller-AUS also has information on equipment profile set-up here (http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,5140.msg21415.html#msg21415) .

By far the hardest aspect of BeerSmith2 for new all-grainers is working out what figures to use in their equipment profile and understanding the logic behind these figures. No software can instantly give you an understanding of the all-grain brewing process let alone the mathematics so a new user must be prepared to spend some time educating themselves.

This thread aims to get you started on this journey.

This thread will get your 'Equipment Profile' to a good starting point. A new user though will need to take many measurements over 5 or more brews before they start adjusting the  figures they end up with below. A single brew can teach you nothing about figures. The average of 5 brews can.

I will only be looking at some of the fields in 'Equipment Profile,' the ones I think are the hardest fields for the new user to understand and estimate. Details on the other fields can be found in the BeerSmith2 help file (http://www.beersmith.com/help2/) and video (http://www.beersmith.com/setting-up-your-equipment-in-beersmith-2/).

Let's Get Started

Firstly go to 'Profiles' and then click on 'Add Equip'. Now type in a name for the equipment profile - I am going to call this profile 'Sample Beginner Equipment Profile.'

Here are the fields that we will look at.

Bottling Volume
Fermenter Loss
Batch Volume
Loss to Trub and Chiller
Boil Off
Boil Time
Brewhouse Efficiency (and how it can be derived from 'Mash Efficiency')

Now let's start exploring and put in some figures.

Bottling Volume

This is how much beer you would like to end up with in your bottles and/or kegs. 5 gal or 18.93 L is a handy size for a lot of brewers so we will use this for our example and work our way up from there. You cannot type into this field as it is automatically calculated from the next two numbers. Once we type the next two numbers in you should see 5 gal or 18.93 L appear in this field.

Fermenter Loss

As beer ferments, quite a lot of sediment etc collects at the bottom of the fermenter. Most people underestimate this loss. In our profile we will allow some breathing space, however the upside is it will allow you to establish your real equipment losses faster and easier. It will also mean that you should be able to just transfer clear wort and beer rather than cloudy muck into your bottles/kegs. So, I am going to allow 0.5 gallons or 1.89 litres for this. Type this into the 'Fermenter Loss' field.

Batch Volume (Also known as 'Batch Size' in BeerSmith2.)

It is important to realise that this term means different things to different brewers and in different software. There is no standard international definition. In BeerSmith2 it is clearly defined as the volume you want to get into your fermenter. If you look at the Batch Volume field you will see it  reads 5 gal or 18.93 L as this is the default of BeerSmith2. As we want to end up with 5 gal or 18.93 L in our bottles we need to add in our 'Fermenter Loss' to work out our 'Batch Size.' So type in 5.5 gal or 20.82 L into the 'Batch Volume' field.

Loss to Trub and Chiller

At the end of an all-grain boil there will be what is known as 'kettle trub'. This consists of hop break and other types of solids and debris. It is regarded as best practice to avoid putting these solids into your fermenter as much as possible so we need to make an allowance for this. Some brewers use advanced trub management techniques to make this loss very low. Whirlpooling, hop socks and filters are ways of achieving this. Most new all-grainers make the mistake of under-estimating their losses to trub. These can be extremely high when no trub management techniques are used. I am going to allow for quite a large 'Loss to Trub and Chiller,' however in some cases including very hoppy brews, this loss to trub and chiller may not be high enough. Type in 1.25 gal or 4.73 L.

Boil Off

Boil off is the amount of liquid evaporated off between the start and the end of the boil. This can vary quite dramatically from brew to brew. For example brewing on a hot, dry, windy day will significantly increase boil-off so new brewers need to do several brews to become familiar with this.

Given the same atmospheric conditions etc, the main factor affecting boil off is the surface area of our pot/kettle. A while ago, I gathered some figures from a collection of brewers and wrote a formula that new brewers could use to at least take an educated guess at what their boil off would be, based on their kettle diameter.

I will show this calculation in the post that follows however it is done automatically for you in the attached spreadsheet called, 'BeerSmith2 Equipment Profile Set-Up Helper 1.3'. This spreadsheet allows for metric, US and English users. SigurĂ°ur GuĂ°brandsson has also written an online tool for us here (http://sigginet.info/brewing/tools/equipment-profile-helper/). (Thanks Sig!) Typing in the diameter of your kettle and your boil time will give you your boil-off estimate.

For our example, I will assume we have a pot with a diameter of 40 cms (15.8 inches) and that we will do a 90 minute boil. Using either the attached spreadsheet or online tool, I can see that I need to type in 8.1 L or 2.14 gal into the 'Boil Off' Field.

Boil Time

As just mentioned, we are going to use a 90 minute boil in our profile. This is quite a good time for inexperienced brewers to use as it can solve some haze and other problems that can occur in rare circumstances in a 60 minute boil. If you prefer to do a shorter boil, for example 60 minutes, remember to change the 'Boil Off' field above to 5.38 L or 1.42 gal. For our example though let's type 90 into the 'Boil time' field.

Brewhouse Efficiency (and how it can be derived from 'Mash Efficiency')

Like 'batch size,' the word efficiency is very poorly used in the brewing world. There are actually many types of efficiencies. Some common ones are 'mash efficiency,' 'efficiency into boiler,' 'efficiency into kettle,' 'post-boil efficiency' 'efficiency into fermenter' and 'efficiency into packaging.'

While the above are well-defined, there is no internationally accepted definition of the terms, 'Brewhouse Efficiency' or 'Efficiency'. Once again, these terms often mean different things to different programs and different brewers. This can be very hard for the new all-grainer to get their head around.

When BeerSmith2 says 'Tot Efficiency' or, 'Brewhouse Efficiency,' it means 'efficiency into fermenter.' For example, our 'Brewhouse Efficiency', in the profile we are creating here, is going to be very low as we are 'wasting' a lot of wort with the high 'Loss to Trub and Chiller' figure we set above.

So, what should a new all-grainer do?

What we should do is first take an educated guess at our 'mash efficiency' which is the same as 'efficiency into boiler' which, in practicality, is also usually very close to 'post-boil efficiency'. Because 'mash efficiency' does not account for 'Loss to Trub and Chiller,' there is far less variation from one brewer to another who use the same all-grain method.

Like boil-off, until we get several brews under our belt, there is no way we can predict what our mash efficiency will be. We have to make an educated guess and go from there. I suggest that the new all-grainer starts with one of the following 'mash efficiencies'...

High Efficiency Equipment = 85% 'Mash Efficiency' (e.g. fly sparging)
Medium Efficiency Equipment = 80% 'Mash Efficiency' (e.g. BIAB)
Low Efficiency Equipment = 75% 'Mash Efficiency' (e.g. batch sparging)

Please note that a high mash efficiency is nothing to be proud of and does not mean you will make better beer. All methods will produce excellent beer and mash efficiency has no correlation with this. Working off these figures though, gives you a starting point.

BeerSmith2 however requires us to input 'Brewhouse Efficiency.' So, how do we convert 'mash efficiency' to 'Brewhouse Efficiency'?

The calculation is actually quite simple and once again, I will write it in the post that follows. It is the same calculation as used for 'mash efficiency' however 'Loss to Trub and Chiller' are deducted from the volume. The calculation is done automatically for you in the attached spreadsheet or online tool.

For our example, I will assume we are going to BIAB so I will type 80 into the 'Mash Efficiency' field and 4.73 L or 1.25 gal into the 'Loss to Trub and Chiller' field of the spreadsheet or online tool.

This tells me that my 'Brewhouse Efficiency' should be 65.2%. So type 65.2 into the 'Brewhouse Efficiency' field of your BeerSmith2 Equipment Profile.

Finalising the Profile

Watch Brad's video here (http://www.beersmith.com/setting-up-your-equipment-in-beersmith-2/) and read the BeerSmith help file (http://www.beersmith.com/help2/) on 'Equipment Profile' set-up . Make any final changes to figures in the profile and click 'OK'.

If you have used the same figures as in this example then your profile will look identical to the one I have attached here called, 'Sample Beginner Equipment Profile'.

What to Do Now

Do not change the figures in this profile until you have done four or five brews or are positive you have made a basic error (see 'A Warning' below). As mentioned above, a single brew will tell you nothing. For example, if you scored a very high or low 'mash efficiency' how do you know it was not due to one of the 7 reasons listed here (http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=771&p=9207#p9207)? If your boil off was very high, was this due to hot, windy, dry conditions on your brew day or maybe even incorrect volume measurements?

A new brewer must take as many measurements as possible over at least 5 brews to learn their equipment. Here are four that you can do on each brew. Each reading helps confirm the others.

1. Mash Efficiency: Measure volume and gravity at the start of boil. (Ensure wort is well-mixed. Cover your hot wort sample in wrap to avoid evaporation while it cools).

2. Post-Boil Efficiency: As above but taken at the end of the boil. This should on average be very close to your Mash Efficiency. The post-boil volume figure you collect here will also enable you to calculate and confirm your boil-off.

3. Brewhouse Efficiency: Measure volume and gravity of wort in the fermenter.

4. Loss to Trub and Chiller: Measure the volume that remains in your kettle (and chiller if counter-flow) after transfer to fermenter. Typing this and your Brewhouse Efficiency into the attached spreadsheet, online tool or the actual fields of BeerSmith2 will help confirm your Mash Efficiency.

Doing all these measurements gives you practice at taking readings and will make you realise faster that variances between readings and single brews are not uncommon. At the end of these five brews you will also have excellent base figures from which to create your own equipment profile.

A Warning  

Changing things in your Equipment Profile without having a reliable collection of average figures will only cause you trouble. For example, if you decide to decrease your 'Loss to Trub and Chiller' figure, do you realise after studying the above that you must also increase your 'Brewhouse Efficiency' figure because your system now will have a higher 'efficiency into fermenter'?

Playing around with volume or 'Brewhouse Efficiency' figures within a recipe is also very dangerous for an inexperienced user so be very careful! Always make a copy of a recipe before you start playing.

The good news is that if you have read and really studied the above rather than skimmed through it, you will be well on the road to driving BeerSmith2 safely and letting it take you places that 'skimmers' will never reach or only reach by a possibly painful accident :argh:.

I'm happy to answer questions in this thread as long as I am sure you haven't skimmed ;).

Cheers,
Pat
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2011, 01:52:15 AM
Estimating Boil-Off from the Kettle Diameter
In metric, the estimate is...

Litres per hour boiled off = pi*(diameter of kettle in cms/2)*(diameter of kettle in cms/2)*0.00428.

So, for the 40 cm pot we used in our sample profile above, the calculation was...

Litres per hour boiled off = 3.14159*40/2*40/2*0.00428 = 5.38 L/Hr

Deriving 'Brewhouse Efficiency' from 'Mash Efficiency'
The formula is...

BeerSmith2 'Brewhouse Efficiency' = 'Mash Efficiency'-('Loss to Trub and Chiller'/('Loss to Trub and Chiller'+'Batch Volume')*'Mash Efficiency')

So, for the sample profile used in the post above, the calculations was...

'Brewhouse Efficiency' = 80-(4.73/(4.73+20.82)*80=65.2%
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: chiller_AUS on July 02, 2011, 01:58:46 AM
The following .pdf file should help people who are new to Beersmith 2 set up their equipment correctly.

Please take time to read through both Pat's and my articles on equipment setup they should get you on the road to answering most basic questions.

Steve
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: BobBrews on July 03, 2011, 08:54:32 AM
Awesome post Pat. A very grey area made simple! I still will have to print it out and peruse it in the "reading room"? Thanks for all the hard work!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Wombat on July 04, 2011, 10:58:16 AM
Pat,
Great post.  It answers some nagging questions I have had.  Thanks!!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 04, 2011, 05:43:20 PM
Thanks Bob and Wombat for taking the time to have a read and comment. It's a hard subject!

I was just chatting to Sigurdur (in Iceland!) and he is working on his online tool and will be trying to get it to the stage where you put in your info and then press a button to create your equipment.bsmx file and then download it!

Brad is certainly interested in improving this side of things so any input you have would be really appreciated by him as well.

Thanks again  ;),
Pat
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: sigurdur on July 05, 2011, 02:00:12 AM
Great article Pat, top job!!

chiller_AUS, nice document. I have skimmed it, but looks to be good. I will read it thoroughly later today.

As for the calculator, I am hoping to finish the "equipment profile from the press of a button" this week .. :)
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 06, 2011, 06:56:37 AM
Can't wait to see what you come up with Sig. Good on you!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: BruceBrew on July 06, 2011, 11:42:21 AM
Thanks for a great article Pat. I'm new to BS 1.4 and 2.0 and still trying to make it fit my style. Your article has helped me move closer. I anticipate I'll be massaging my profile for at least the next 6-7 months.

Bruce

Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: chubba27 on July 06, 2011, 02:28:48 PM
First, great post.  Thanks to both for the great work.
Second, a quick question.  When taking readings, I don't return the sample to the batch.  Possibly paranoid, but better safe than sorry.  Do I need to account for the amounts used for sampling, or is it just not enough to be significant?
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: chiller_AUS on July 06, 2011, 06:01:59 PM
If you take a litre [quart] it is significant but a normal hydro sample once no. However initially it is a good idea to track all losses regardless until you see consistent results. It is surprising where the wort "disappears" to over a brewday.  I certainly agree - always remember sanitation - don't return any hydro samples to the fermenter.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: merfizle on July 10, 2011, 05:44:37 PM
Hi, first of all great post!

I'm trying to figure out best way to calculate loss to trub.  I use a large filter screen so there isn't really any liquid left.  Is a dry US gallons reading going to be accurate enough for the spreadsheet?

Mark
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 13, 2011, 04:38:18 PM
Hi there Mark  ;)

Sorry about the slow reply. Busy few days.

What I would do in your situation is take a guess as to how much hop debris etc is caught in your screen. It is wet and also takes up 'volume' so it does creates a loss. Once you have taken your guess, do your five brews but focus on measuring your end of boil volume* (adjusted for shrinkage) and your volume into fermenter. The difference between these two will be your true 'Loss to Trub and chiller.'

*Make sure you measure your end of boil volume with the screen still in the wort.

Cheers and apologies again for the delayed reply,
Pat
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: maddspoiler on July 17, 2011, 07:08:45 AM
Pat,
Thanks for the help on this! I did what you said and have meticulously measured everything from mash/sparge/pre boil/post boil/fermentor volumes and gravities and everything seems to be coming together and making more sense. I am really surprised how much loss there is and where they occur. After 3 batches I estimate about 70-72% total eff and a mash eff of about 75%. I will do 3 more batches like this to make sure though. I realize now how many assumptions on the pre/post boil and fermenteter volumes I was making.The eq profile for the 5 gallon gott is almost perfect. I just had to make a copy of it that accounts for the boiloff during a 90 minute boil. Thanks Again!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 17, 2011, 07:33:26 AM
Glad that it made some sense madds  ;),

It's good that you are putting in the time and effort on these first brews. Once you have done this, you can become a lot more lazy as you can be pretty confident in your averages. You also will become comfortable with variations from brew to brew as you realise that they are something to be expected.

What I am seeing when you report a Brewhouse Efficiency (Tot Efficiency/Efficiency into Fermenter) as 70-72% and a mash efficiency of 75% is that your 'Loss to trub and chiller' must be fairly small. Is that correct?

Cheers,
Pat
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: maddspoiler on July 17, 2011, 02:09:17 PM
Yeah Im using an Immersion Chiller so no loss there but about a quart to two quarts loss to trub. I know I should leave a little more than this but I only have a 7.5 gallon brewpot and still want to end at 5 gallons even after a 90 minute boil (filling it almost to the rim  ;) ). Eventually Ill pick up a bigger kettle. Thanks again and cheers!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Pat on July 22, 2011, 07:52:29 AM
Ah, all sounds good ms!

Don't worry about adding a little top up water into your fermenter though if it will make your brew day a bit easier. BeerSmith2 will account for this so it might be an option for you rather than woryying about 'making' figures correct, worrying about boil-overs etc.

Those losses have to come out somewhere :D so I'd go for the top up water option myself so as I would end up knowing my real 'Loss to Trub and Chiller figure'. Top-up water is definitely not an option to be frowned upon when your kettle is on the small side.

 ;)
Pat
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Sithdad on December 08, 2011, 02:26:44 PM
Just wanted to post my thanks for this users guide. I had been struggling with consistently hitting my numbers. I made up my own profile and brewed a batch and I hit almost every target number. OG was slightly higher, which I'd prefer than lower. I'll be dialing in from here, but this was a great starting point. Thanks again.

P.S. Necro posting FTW!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: jmcewen75 on February 15, 2012, 09:51:57 PM
Wow.  My head is spinning. 

I have been brewing on my small stovetop for just over a year.  A bunch of extract kits and a few partial mash recipes under my belt.  I have been thinking of trying smaller all grain BIAB style brews.  Like 2.5 -3 gallon batches.  My little gas stove doesn't put out enough heat to keep anything more than 3.5 gallons boiling.  I just downloaded the Beersmith Software and don't know where to even start.  I tried to set up my equipment profile, but i'll be honest... I am confused.  There is a lot of material out there and i'll continue trying to educate myself, but has anyone set up a similar profile?  5 gallon kettle, want to bottle 3 gallons of beer.  BIAB method. 

I feel like i am cheating by asking for the help, but i need it.  Thoughts or direction is hugely appreciated. 

Thanks,
Justin
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: beernbourbon on February 23, 2013, 03:39:08 PM
This is good info....I just wanted to reply so it can come back up to the top. I was kind of floppin' around with stuff, not really knowing what meant what, trying to get all the little pieces I'd get from the 'old guys' (yes, yet another movie reference....men in black 2). But this put it all together for me and I feel much more confidence with my AG setup now, knowing I have a stable platform to start with.
Thanks, Pat, and Curly55 for putting the link in a post! Big help!!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: john thorn on March 02, 2013, 06:04:01 AM
Great job!
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: acacko on April 09, 2013, 11:01:18 AM
just an aside here..

as a beginner I had trouble finding a cheap pot.

64 qt spigot and cover <$200.00

look here -> http://www.provantage.com/bayou-classic-1064~7BAYC001.htm
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: CA_Mouse on April 09, 2013, 01:06:28 PM
Just to jump this a bit... Did Sig ever get his 'push-button config' completed? I'd like to see if I actually got mine correct as compared to his...

Mouse
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: TimmyR on April 26, 2013, 06:36:42 PM
Bump...

This is along with burtbros post http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,8579.0.html (http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,8579.0.html) is excellent.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Slurk on December 20, 2013, 03:38:16 AM
The good news is that if you have read and really studied the above rather than skimmed through it, you will be well on the road to driving BeerSmith2 safely and letting it take you places that 'skimmers' will never reach or only reach by a possibly painful accident :argh:.
I'm happy to answer questions in this thread as long as I am sure you haven't skimmed ;).
Cheers,
Pat
Awesome post Pat! Thanks a lott!
R, Slurk
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: BeerSmith on December 20, 2013, 12:24:14 PM
Just a note:
 I posted a new video on setting up an equipment profile today - it might help:
  http://beersmith.com/video

Working also on bringing all of the other videos up to date.

Brad
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: stmicbarr on January 05, 2014, 05:05:42 PM
Thanks so much Pat!  I just did my first all-grain batch yesterday using a recipe on BeerSmith 2, not to mention trying to learn how to use the latter at the same time.  I love the relative ease of use of the app, but the equations are what I need to get more confidence. 

Cheers!

Barr
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: costadelrica on March 18, 2014, 04:15:45 PM
I advice all friends here : Doing all these measurements gives you practice at taking readings and will make you realise faster that variances between readings and single brews are not uncommon.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: SaguaroMan on May 22, 2014, 10:06:35 AM
Just found this, very helpful!  I always wondered why my target readings were always under...
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: richnbad on September 23, 2014, 03:04:17 PM
Used your post today and already seeing an improvement in efficiency
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: OldBrewer on December 13, 2014, 07:56:18 PM
It's a shame BS don't point you to this post in there equipment wizard when you first open BS for the first time. It would help new comers understand what they should be entering, answering there questions. I've been on BS for two weeks before I found this post. Nice work you guys.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: grathan on December 14, 2014, 06:13:34 AM
+1 I was a mess after watching only the videos.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: RobbieH on December 22, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
Nice work.  Will dedicate the focus this deserves later when not at work :-)
Started using BeerSmith a couple of months ago for BIAB and just completed first 20l Braumeister brew on weekend so loving this sort of thing!  Thanks again.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: ScottVoak on December 28, 2014, 10:08:34 PM
Great post, but confused about one aspect:

In the post you defined mash efficiency as  'efficiency into boiler' and total efficiency as 'efficiency into fermenter.'  Then you gave the following equation:

BeerSmith2 'Brewhouse Efficiency' = 'Mash Efficiency'-('Loss to Trub and Chiller'/('Loss to Trub and Chiller'+'Batch Volume')*'Mash Efficiency')

My question is where does boil off and cooling shrinkage come in?  It does not appear to be accounted for.

I am looking into this because my total efficiency is close to right, but by mash efficiency seems to be a bit low every time.

Thanks,
Scott
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: grathan on December 29, 2014, 06:48:57 AM
The brewhouse efficiency looks like it is tied to the mash number you enter. On the other hand if you entered brewhouse efficiency to figure out mash efficiency, then perhaps it could be off. It looks like it uses %4 loss for boil-off which may or may not match your system.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: ScottVoak on December 29, 2014, 08:10:49 PM
Ok, here is a weird one.  I have a recipe that came out where the Measured Mash Efficiency is 85.4% (from the Mash tab) and the Measured Efficiency (from the Design tab) is 94.7%,  How does that happen?
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: brewfun on December 30, 2014, 04:42:59 AM
My question is where does boil off and cooling shrinkage come in?  It does not appear to be accounted for.

Efficiency is about sugar content, not water. As boil off occurs, there is a corresponding rise in gravity because sugar isn't lost. Shrinkage isn't concentrating sugars, evaporation is.

Your Brewhouse (total) efficiency is the percentage of total available sugar (locked in the grain) that makes it to the fermenter. If you put your brewhouse efficiency at 90%, you're saying that with mash efficiency and all accumulated losses, 90% of the total available sugar gets into the fermenter.

As you increase your loss to trub in the equipment profile, you'll see a corresponding rise or fall in mash efficiency. The predicted gravity won't change because BeerSmith is using Brewhouse efficiency to predict it. So, with more loss, the total available sugar can only come from an increase in mash efficiency.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: grathan on December 30, 2014, 08:21:25 AM
Oops, my bad. I thought you were referencing the OP's attached spreadsheet formulas for converting mash eff to Tot Eff. If BrewFun hasn't made things clear, you can export a recipe file and post it here to take a look.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: ScottVoak on December 31, 2014, 12:35:26 PM
I think I get the idea for the efficiency calculations, but the attached recipe shows a brew house efficiency higher than the mash efficiency. I know I just have something input wrong, but I can't find it.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: grathan on December 31, 2014, 02:49:30 PM
Your looking at Tot Efficiency %78? That number doesn't ever change unless you change your equipment profile or something. Honestly I have ignored it up until just now. I think it estimates your mash eff or something.

In this particular recipe your mash eff was %87.1 and the Measured Efficiency was %81.3 which seems reasonable no?



In the Selectable Fields on the Design tab, make certain Mash Eff and Measured Efficiency are shown if we are not in agreement.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: brewfun on December 31, 2014, 06:08:37 PM
the attached recipe shows a brew house efficiency higher than the mash efficiency.

In my download, just the opposite shows. Brewhouse Efficiency is 81% and Mash is 87%

To translate: You got 87% of the grain's sugars into the kettle. After concentrating sugars in the boil, then deducting the 1.25 gallon loss to trub (which is 7% of the remaining kettle volume), the remaining percentage of sugar in the fermenter is 81% of what's possible from the grain.

Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: ScottVoak on December 31, 2014, 06:15:54 PM
Thanks guys.  I actually uploaded the report that was correct, not the incorrect one.  I went back and looked at brew day paper notes and we made a data error which messed up our results.  On our next brew day, our hydrometer was broken and I think we must have broken it mid-brew on the one in question and so got some bad numbers that made it look like we had more total sugar into the fermenter than out of the mash. 
Thanks for the excellent explanations and detail.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Bboykin87 on January 25, 2015, 06:35:15 AM
When setting up a new equipment profile, I have a 10 gallon mash tun  but I usually brew 5 gallon batches.  When I enter my mash tun volume as 10 BS calculates that I want to use all that volume to mash.  Should I be using all 10 gallons to mash in and how will that affect my final product if I'm planning on only making a 5 gallon batch and the recipe I am using is for a 5 gallon batch?
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: grathan on January 25, 2015, 07:16:17 AM
That doesn't sound right.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: brewfun on January 25, 2015, 10:55:33 AM
When setting up a new equipment profile, I have a 10 gallon mash tun  but I usually brew 5 gallon batches.  When I enter my mash tun volume as 10 BS calculates that I want to use all that volume to mash.  Should I be using all 10 gallons to mash in and how will that affect my final product if I'm planning on only making a 5 gallon batch and the recipe I am using is for a 5 gallon batch?

You can alter the equipment profile OR the mash profile to fit the reduced batch size. Either way, it's easiest to just create a half batch equipment profile so that you can use the scale recipe function.

BeerSmith is calculating based on the options you've chosenin the Mash Profile. What you're describing sounds like a batch sparge with none of the other boxes checked and still at the default 95% fill level.

Set the "Using batches that fill" option to 50%.
Select the "drain mashtun first" option in the mash profile.

If this results in wildly uneven batches, you can smooth that out by checking "Use equal batch sizes."
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: jessicajames on March 27, 2015, 10:31:10 AM
Firstly I am new here, not new to brewing been doing that for 40 years but new to Beer Smith.
I was always puzzled about the Equipment Profile, what it meant, what it was for, what it did. Sorry but I still am.
I mash (nowadays) in an insulated bin thingy sparge and boil in a boiler and ferment in a fermenting vessel. Then I ferment for a while and Cask.
Efficiency is Output divided by Input pure and simple. Each individual step has it's own efficiency but the overall is what we get for what we put in.
For instance Boil efficiency is variable dependant upon the diameter of the boil vessel. Having put 30 odd litres of liquor in there it does not matter how many hops you put in because they are extra and will fill the space at the bottom of the boiler as a filter. They have no effect on efficiency except perhaps to improve it.
It's the same with the mash. It dose not matter how much water is absorbed or space taken up by the spent grains because sparge will continue until the runoff is at a low value or enough is collected. I get bored before either.

This exasperated reply is because I cannot see what the fuss is about or the discussion or the parameter in the application.

With apologies.
James
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: brewfun on March 30, 2015, 07:02:12 AM
Firstly I am new here, not new to brewing been doing that for 40 years but new to Beer Smith.

Welcome!

I, too, have decades of experience, plus some other credentials.

Quote
I was always puzzled about the Equipment Profile, what it meant, what it was for, what it did. Sorry but I still am.
I mash (nowadays) in an insulated bin thingy sparge and boil in a boiler and ferment in a fermenting vessel. Then I ferment for a while and Cask.

This implies that you do not share or collect recipes, and that you've never concerned yourself with consistency. If either were true, then some data about your thingys would be relevant to you.

Quote
Efficiency is Output divided by Input pure and simple. Each individual step has it's own efficiency but the overall is what we get for what we put in.

Yes, and no. Overall is EXACTLY what BeerSmith measures since it is targeting the fermenter. However, long standing tradition is to measure in the kettle for mash efficiency. The latter is a process point measurement, not the overall. Since the former is a different measurement point, the how & why bear discussion, which is further proven by the length of the replies.

Quote
For instance Boil efficiency is variable dependent upon the diameter of the boil vessel.

This is incomplete. Other factors such as heat power density, btu transfer and ambient humidity are also factors.

Quote
Having put 30 odd litres of liquor in there it does not matter how many hops you put in because they are extra and will fill the space at the bottom of the boiler as a filter. They have no effect on efficiency except perhaps to improve it.

I can't agree with you on this. If there is any liquid whatsoever trapped, then it represents a loss of efficiency. Since hops are decidedly more wet after a boil than before, there must be some loss. Again, Brewhouse efficiency accounts for this, mash efficiency does not. Add to that the trub that is best left behind, and the loss is easily measurable.

Quote
It's the same with the mash. It dose not matter how much water is absorbed or space taken up by the spent grains because sparge will continue until the runoff is at a low value or enough is collected. I get bored before either.

Perhaps some new brewing books will alleviate the boredom while waiting for a full kettle?  ;)  I'm always adding to my brewing library. Ingredients, techniques and overall understanding about the brewing process continue to be studied, discussed and used to make better and better beer.

Quote
This exasperated reply is because I cannot see what the fuss is about or the discussion or the parameter in the application.

At it's most basic, it is a way to predict the total amount of grain needed to achieve closely similar results on various systems. Most brewers share recipes and ideas with an eye towards flavor targets, rather than chance. Brewhouse efficiency adapts the results of one brewing system to the capabilities of another.

Title: Slow Cooker homebrew set up
Post by: wce_82 on July 26, 2015, 06:39:08 PM
Hello fellow brewers,

Need help with setting up a profile. Im a biab brewer and have my profile for that setup and seems to be working well. I have seen a brewing method using a 2 vessel system using a slow cooker, for small batches. I am trying to set it up and obviously must be missing something.

The slow cooker volume is 6L and was planning on using approx 15L pot for my boil hoping to get anywhere from 6-9L as finished beer. The drama I am having is that beersmith always tells me I need to fill my mash tun (slow cooker) up with 7L of water which will overflow even before the grain is added.

Any help would be awesome.

Thanks
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: BYRONPEL on June 24, 2016, 12:59:41 AM
There is no way of opening a .bsmx file either in windows 10 or imac.internet explorer won't open,word pad will give coded readout,and co on.
Thanks
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: txpitmaster on June 24, 2016, 10:30:33 AM
if its an xml file you should be able to open in note pad or note pad + after associating the file type to it.  A few years ago I was using notepad + to edit xml files for an online game...
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: jopakent on October 22, 2016, 11:00:49 AM
So I'm still a little frustrated. I've gone through and set up my equipment profile so now all of my numbers seem right. But when I use this profile in a recipe, the mash tab doesn't seem to be accurate. In round numbers, I'm thinking I'll need about 7 gallons of water to get my 5 gallon batch. However, teh Mash in description says 18.63 qts. I thought that setting up my profile would trigger a change in the Mash instructions.

For now, I guess I'll adjust the numbers myself. Or is this what I'm supposed to do. I'm confused.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Oginme on October 22, 2016, 11:08:05 AM
Right off hand, I would ask what the volume BeerSmith is projecting for sparge water.  You give us a volume for mash-in, but if you have a sparge step, the balance of the water demand may be in that step.

If you export a recipe using your equipment and mash profile as a .bsmx file and post it here, we can try to figure out if there is anything else which is giving you such a low number for water volume.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: ignacevachon on May 03, 2017, 07:33:12 PM
For 10 gallon batches (this is my first brew with some new equipment), what should I set my fermenter loss to? Is it double the loss of a 5 gallon batch? I will of course adjust it after my for batch.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Oginme on May 04, 2017, 05:20:00 AM
That would be a good starting point.  The fermenter loss does not affect the rest of the brewing calculations since BeerSmith calculates volumes based upon the volume into the fermenter.  The fermenter loss is more for estimating your net yield for the purpose of carbonating.
Title: BeerSmith2 Equipment Profile set up for new all grainers
Post by: DashaFew on June 18, 2017, 10:52:14 PM
Hello Chuck, I have a very portable cooler rig that you are more than welcome to use for a brew. I can also help with the tutorial to get you going.  I can also provide a suggestion for a first batch that will help get you going.  its very easy, once you have sanitation, the boil process and fermentation down then moving to all grain is nothing more than making oatmeal ok a little more but still easy. my email is in your pm, send me an email
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Kevin58 on July 19, 2017, 12:03:32 PM
This series of videos helped me a lot. This one is equipment profile setup but he also has videos for mash setup, BIAB and batch sparge setup.

https://youtu.be/QmW7pwQP5mQ
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: dioggio on December 12, 2017, 08:10:59 PM
I have nearly finished building a system with a 20G kettle with 5500w Element and a SS colander (from a Brewha home brewery BIAC) its a heavy solid kettle with a lot of holes in the bottom that will hold the grain rather than a bag. I have a chugger pump so will be recirculating during mash and then will then lift the colander above the kettle and sparge. I will then boil in the same kettle and transfer via a plate chiller to my fermenter.

Is this basically a BIAB equipment profile? What should I use as a typical starting effieciency? Anything else in particular that I would need to treat different than a standard BIAB set up?

I will be doing mostly 10G batches but I made my HLT (for sparge water) out of a converted corny keg so it is 5G max. Is it possible to just adjust the strike volume up so the maximum sparge needed is 5G? Can I do this in BS or is that something I would have to do manually?

Is there a benefit in doing some sparge (albeit maybe not the correct amount) rather than no sparge at all?
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: andrew08 on April 01, 2019, 10:48:53 AM
Hi - I'm trying to enter a recipe from BYO - going with the default grain:water ratio Beersmith calculated the amount of water and the temp I need. I plan to do a 60m mash, then drain, then do a 15m 168 degree sparge. The Beersmith mash profile I chose is 'Single Infusion, Full Body' that specifies a single fly sparge. My issue is that Beersmith is calculating a sparge volume that calculates out to 5.7g pre-boil. The recipe in BYO suggests collecting sparge until I get to 7g. (https://www.robotance.com/robotic-food-processor/robot-coupe-cl50/) I've looked all over (I think) to find that setting in beersmith and override to get to 7g. I could specify it in the notes but I would prefer to have the recipe (and therefore instructions) be accurate. Can someone suggest what setting(s) I need to change to get the pre-boil vol to 7g?

Thanks,
Andrew
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: Oginme on April 01, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
You are draining the mash tun first, indicating that you are doing a batch sparge.  If this is correct, then edit the mash profile and turn on the batch sparge indicator.

If you are fly sparging, i would not recommend draining the mash tun first and making up plenty of sparge water so that you can continue sparging until you reach your desired volume.

Now, if you construct your equipment profile based upon your process losses, then the recommendation that the program gives you has the boil off and process losses associated for your system.  BYO constructs their recipes and volumes so that they work over a broad range of brewers systems without being too far off for any one output. 

The purpose of BeerSmith software is to target those numbers to be more accurate for YOUR system.
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: dtapke on April 01, 2019, 11:24:00 AM
As Oginme stated about batch vs fly sparge. There is a Mash Profile for Batch Sparging listed as "Single infusion, ____ body, Batch Sparge"

Also, ensure your batch size is what you want. if the BYO recipe has a pre-boil volume of 7 gallons, they may be making the recipe based on collecting a different quantity than what you are collecting. These numbers are attained through your equipment profile. If you have your equipment set up for 4g in fermenter, 1g to boil off, and .7g of loss, than it will give you the 5.7 gallons. If your profile is as such that you're collecting 5g in fermenter, 1g boil off, 1g loss, than it will give you a pre-boil of 7g (note, this is a bit off as your pre-boil will allow for thermal expansion. I over simplified)
Title: Re: BeerSmith2 'Equipment Profile' set-up for new all-grainers.
Post by: anthonys2441 on September 15, 2019, 12:31:10 PM
thank you 8)