Pale Ale with low bitter and high aroma

Grummore · Mar 23, 2017

Greetings,

I'd like to have your comments and ideas on this recipe. I'm new to brewing and reading as much as I can (with little time

).

I am trying to create a refreshing pale ale high on flavor, but low on bitter. I've check the spec of several hops and I would like to have your thoughts on the extract chosen, steeping grains and hops. Do they fit together? Would it take good? I'd like a bit of spicy as well, but no citrus taste (or low). Would irish moss be useful?

What bug me the most is the kind of yeast to use. Beersmith doesn't tell you what it does or what it will do. What kind of yeast would do great with that kind of beer?

Here is the recipe:

Recipe: La Manipulatrice [Blond Ale]
Style: Blonde Ale
TYPE: Extract

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 25.85 l
Post Boil Volume: 23.96 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.3 IBUs
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------

Code:

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
0.30 kg               Munich Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC)             Grain         1        8.0 %         
0.20 kg               Victory Malt (49.2 EBC)                  Grain         2        5.3 %         
1.75 kg               DME Golden Light (Briess) (7.9 EBC)      Dry Extract   3        46.7 %        
1.50 kg               LME Golden Light (Briess) (7.9 EBC)      Extract       4        40.0 %        
20.00 g               Golding, U.S. [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min   Hop           5        11.6 IBUs     
10.00 g               Liberty [4.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           6        3.8 IBUs      
0.50 Items            Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        7        -             
20.00 g               Perle, U.S. [8.25 %] - Boil 10.0 min     Hop           8        6.9 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         9        -

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out

Thank you!

Grummore · Mar 27, 2017

Boring recipe?

Should I add hops after flameout? If yes, how long?

jtoots · Mar 27, 2017

My feedback is focused on the hops.
-I'd suggest you bump up your bitterness. Follow the link below and you'll see that the style is typically 30-45 IBU. 45 might be more bitter than you're looking for, but starting at 30 is a better kickoff point than 22... at an IBU that's too low it'll come out sweet.
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style10.php
-You could potentially save a couple bucks by going with a bittering hop that has a higher alpha content than 5%. Probably not a big deal here, but the theory is that you can't taste any of the hops that go in for 60 minutes.... just bittering, so going high alpha = less hops needed.
-I'd suggest skipping the 30 min add and go with one or more of the following: (1) add at 5 min, (2) add at flameout then chill, (3) add after chilling down to 170 degrees and stir for 15 minutes or more (whirlpool), dryhop after fermentation.

Oginme · Mar 27, 2017

OK, you are looking for a lot of hop flavor versus bitterness? Is this your goal?

I make some wheat beers to emphasize the hop flavors and generally I will begin hopping at around 5 to 10 minutes left in the boil. At this point, I put in about 10% of the hops I will be using. Then about 50% go in during the whirlpool and the remaining 40% go in as dry hops split evenly in two additions: one for 6 day and the other for 3 days. If you want some good bitterness out of the dry hops, add the first batch at high krausen and then the second as it seems to be settling down. If you want to get a lot of aroma and flavor, wait until the fermentation is close to over (during the last phase when the yeast is cleaning up the by products (usually within 2 to 4 points of final gravity).

When doing this, my bitterness target may be something around 20 to 30 IBU, but the sensation is much higher and smoother. I get a lot of hop aromas from the dry hopping and a lot of flavors associated with the various hops I am using. When used with hops like citra or galaxy, I get very strong fruit flavors of mango (citra) or passionfruit (galaxy). Others I have done this with include Mandarin Bavaria (tangerine) and Mosaic (very fruity berry, tropical fruit, light citrus). I currently have one in the fermenter featuring Belma and citra from which I am hoping to get a combination of mango and strawberry.

jtoots · Mar 28, 2017

Oginme said:
I make some wheat beers to emphasize the hop flavors and generally I will begin hopping at around 5 to 10 minutes left in the boil.

Interesting, so no hops at all at the beginning of the boil?

Oginme · Mar 28, 2017

That is correct. The object is to have the hops provide as much of the flavor profile as possible without producing any harsh bitterness.

Grummore · Mar 28, 2017

Thanks, peoples! I just noticed a few things about hops. You sent me hunting information and found the picture I have attached which is what I understood with your previous comments.

What I was looking for is to give more "flavors" to the beer, with less bitterness. Of course, I don't want to have a sweet beer, but I was looking to reduce the bitter effect while raising the flavor.

Grummore · Mar 29, 2017

Thank you Oginme. This gave me enough to understand the basic. I like when theory meets practice.

Oginme said:
OK, you are looking for a lot of hop flavor versus bitterness? Is this your goal?

I make some wheat beers to emphasize the hop flavors and generally I will begin hopping at around 5 to 10 minutes left in the boil. At this point, I put in about 10% of the hops I will be using. Then about 50% go in during the whirlpool and the remaining 40% go in as dry hops split evenly in two additions: one for 6 day and the other for 3 days. If you want some good bitterness out of the dry hops, add the first batch at high krausen and then the second as it seems to be settling down. If you want to get a lot of aroma and flavor, wait until the fermentation is close to over (during the last phase when the yeast is cleaning up the by products (usually within 2 to 4 points of final gravity).

When doing this, my bitterness target may be something around 20 to 30 IBU, but the sensation is much higher and smoother. I get a lot of hop aromas from the dry hopping and a lot of flavors associated with the various hops I am using. When used with hops like citra or galaxy, I get very strong fruit flavors of mango (citra) or passionfruit (galaxy). Others I have done this with include Mandarin Bavaria (tangerine) and Mosaic (very fruity berry, tropical fruit, light citrus). I currently have one in the fermenter featuring Belma and citra from which I am hoping to get a combination of mango and strawberry.

Grummore · Mar 29, 2017

After several reading and good pieces of advice, I modified the recipe as following. What do you think?

Golding hops for low but acceptable bitterness 60 min.
Challenger hops for 20 min for maximum flavor.
Saaz hops for aroma.

Although, I was wondering about the good timing, moments and quantity, mainly about saaz dry hopping.

Cependant, je me demandais si les temps, les moments et les quantit?s ?taient bons, surtout pour le dry hopping du saaz.

Code:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 25.85 l
Post Boil Volume: 23.96 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l   
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
0.30 kg               Munich Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC)             Grain         1        8.0 %         
0.20 kg               Victory Malt (49.2 EBC)                  Grain         2        5.3 %         
1.75 kg               DME Golden Light (Briess) (7.9 EBC)      Dry Extract   3        46.7 %        
1.50 kg               LME Golden Light (Briess) (7.9 EBC)      Extract       4        40.0 %        
30.00 g               Golding, U.S. [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min   Hop           5        17.4 IBUs     
15.00 g               Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min      Hop           6        7.9 IBUs      
0.50 Items            Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        7        -             
1.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         8        -             
50.00 g               Saaz [3.75 %] - Dry Hop 0.5 Days         Hop           9        0.0 IBUs

Oginme · Mar 29, 2017

Grummore said:
Thanks, peoples! I just noticed a few things about hops. You sent me hunting information and found the picture I have attached which is what I understood with your previous comments.

What I was looking for is to give more "flavors" to the beer, with less bitterness. Of course, I don't want to have a sweet beer, but I was looking to reduce the bitter effect while raising the flavor.

The chart is nice, but limits itself to boil hop additions and is very generic. I have found the punch in terms of flavor and aroma much stronger from whirlpool additions, especially when the wort temperature drops below about 85C before the additions are made. So many more of the volatile hop oils which contribute to some of the more subtle flavors of a given variety of hops are retained with this technique.

Grummore · Jun 2, 2017

In this recipe, how much hop would you add for a dry hop? I'm a bit uncertain with the quantity vs time to put it in.

Oginme · Jun 2, 2017

My (very) general rule of thumb is to duplicate addition levels of the hops in the recipe. Given that, I will mimic the whirlpool hops addition levels (when I do whirlpooling, which is becoming more and more often). Depending upon the types of hops, their %AA, and their oil content combined with the impression I want to prevail (more fruity? resinous? floral?), I will layer the dry hopping. More often than not, I do a single dry hop for 3 days for pale ales, and two dry hop additions (one for 5 to 7 days and the other for 3 to 4) for hoppier styles.

For instance, in the wheat beer I referenced above, I had around 22 grams of whirlpool hops in a 10 liter batch and duplicated those 3 hops at the same rate for dry hopping.

Not to say this is ideal, and once I get this down I will probably play around with different amounts, but it is where I have settled to at this time.

Pale Ale with low bitter and high aroma

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